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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#601

Post by olalonde »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #533
olalonde wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That metric probably doesn't factor in cost of living, cost of education, cost of healthcare, etc. The US isn't particularly young. But regardless, I didn't mean that the US was not a good place to live. It does extremely well on most metrics. My point was that there are many countries, including ones that are tiny in comparison (definitely not "top dog"), that enjoy comparable standards of living. The US could retai…

>That metric probably doesn't factor in cost of living, cost of education, cost of healthcare, etc. Ito does, it's PPP adjusted. Just look it up instead of projecting flaws to obtain a result you desire. >My point was that there are many countries, including ones that are tiny in comparison (definitely not "top dog"), that enjoy a comparable standards of living. I agree completely. All the top countries would be good…

The US does indeed do better than most of the world. I just don't think it's fair to credit its success to its status as a "top dog" or superpower. In my opinion, the vast majority of the credit goes elsewhere, e.g. its (largely) free enterprise system, capacity to attract foreign talent, top universities, culture, etc.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#602

Post by jflatow »

tablespoon wrote: post #474
snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

> The problem should be that the data is collected and provided to the government whenever they want - not that it's not the Chinese government. We had this discussion after the Snowden leaks and nothing changed whatsoever. Back then it was the US government and the US gov had the chance to change the rules so this could not happen. Now they're up in arms because other governments do the exact same thing. It's really…

The US government is not your wife no matter where you live

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#603

Post by tablespoon »

jflatow wrote: post #602
tablespoon wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem should be that the data is collected and provided to the government whenever they want - not that it's not the Chinese government. We had this discussion after the Snowden leaks and nothing changed whatsoever. Back then it was the US government and the US gov had the chance to change the rules so this could not happen. Now they're up in arms because other governments do the exact same thing. It's really…

The US government is not your wife no matter where you live

>> It's like the difference between sharing your bank password with your wife vs. some dude you aren't very friendly with who has a history of wire fraud. "Treat everyone the same" is not a workable policy.

> The US government is not your wife no matter where you live

You're missing the point by taking the analogy too literally.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#604

Post by tablespoon »

thiagoharry wrote: post #518
tablespoon wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem should be that the data is collected and provided to the government whenever they want - not that it's not the Chinese government. We had this discussion after the Snowden leaks and nothing changed whatsoever. Back then it was the US government and the US gov had the chance to change the rules so this could not happen. Now they're up in arms because other governments do the exact same thing. It's really…

> The differentiator here is national security, Which means that all countries other than the US also should be banning Facebook, and most US companies. As Snowden showed, most of them have a history of wire fraud.

>> The differentiator here is national security,

> Which means that all countries other than the US also should be banning Facebook, and most US companies.

Like many sibling comments have already pointed out, many do.

But the answer to your statement is "no." You're trying to pull an oversimple rule out of a pithy comment and neglecting other important distinctions. It's not just a black/white distinction like foreign country vs. domestic, but more more nuanced one like enemy country vs adversary country vs neutral country vs allied country vs domestic. The answer to the question "should country X ban Facebook for national security reasons" will be different for different countries based on their context.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#605

Post by subroutine »

DocTomoe wrote: post #332
subroutine wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case I have no problem with the U.S. banning tiktok until China relaxes its laws.

Trying to legislate other countries? You are aware that sword cuts both ways, right?

Why do you have such a hard on for China or tiktok? As it is, the sword only cuts one-way. A Chinese social media company gets unfiltered access to western markets and populace but China wont allow the same in return. That's not a fair deal; so I say ban tiktok until China decides western social media companies can operate inside China with the same level of freedom that tiktok operates outside China.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#606

Post by SubiculumCode »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #331
snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

I don't think its about data at all, I think it's that they're scared China has control of a system they can feed whatever narrative they want on an individual level and whole parts of society in the west are hopelessly addicted to it. From the data listed, it's a lot but personally with the current state of mobile os computing none of this seems all that out of the ordinary, it's just what is the sad state of those…

THe app does seem to push agendas sometimes, although its just probably the algo. You spend a little extra time on one type of content, and boom that's now a big portion of what you'll see...but I could totally see that the feed could be used to bend minds towards or away from certain ideas through a subtle type of propaganda.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#607

Post by babypuncher »

I don't follow this at all. I agree that TikTok should probably be removed from App Stores, but they are not doing anything that Facebook is not also doing. If you remove one, you have to remove the other.

To me, it sounds like our government is just trying to play favorites with domestic evildoers.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#608

Post by dgb23 »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #465
dgb23 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number 1 for disposable income sounds off. Are daycare, tuitions, healthcare, public transport, rent/mortgages etc. factored in?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c... not sure how accurate wikipedia is here, but I've seen this claim elsewhere

So there is a difference between disposable and discretionary income:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_and_discretionary_i...

Apparently what I meant above is discretionary income, which would include all fundamental bills/payments such as healthcare etc. Disposable income does not include those, it only includes income plus direct payments from the government.

What would interest me is discretionary income, which includes healthcare, mortgages etc. plus education, public transport, daycare, energy and I'm possibly forgetting some fundamental things.

"Disposable" is very much misleading here. If you have 1000$ "disposable" income but you still have to pay for or cannot afford all of the mentioned things then you are in worse shape than someone who has 500$ "disposable" income but can lean on public infrastructure and subsidies for those things. The difference can be quite massive.

The reason I'm specifically suspicious of the US here is that public infrastructure seems to be quite a bit behind and fundamental things like healthcare is substantially more expensive than in some of the most developed countries.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#609

Post by moralestapia »

judge2020 wrote: post #442
627467 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this data collection done by a foreign government and exploited for surveillance or espionage is a national security risk. How were Snowden revelations of USG Bigtech relationship materially different from what's happening here? Maybe it was less transparent? Any "woke" person can see the cognitive dissonance here. It's all fine that you use the geopolitical rivalry argument but not if you try to paint one side of…

'National security risk' is all the FCC is arguing; they're not arguing that these data collection practices are bad in themselves, only that they're bad if it happens in a way that strengthens a foreign government.

If the data exists 99% of the work is already done though.

It is extremely easy for a government to infiltrate into these organizations and get their hands on it, it has happened at Twitter [1], for instance.

So, yes, the problem IS data collection in the first place.

1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/former-twit...

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#610

Post by formerkrogemp »

4ggr0 wrote: post #405
diogenes_of_ak wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if other languages aren’t permissible. I can delete it if I need to.

I personally don't care and the rules don't forbid it. I wondered what you wrote, translated it online and thought I'd post it here to save others a few clicks :) Avec la technologie actuelle, nous devrions pouvoir parler dans la langue de notre choix sans problème.

> Avec la technologie actuelle, nous devrions pouvoir parler dans la langue de notre choix sans problème.

Well said.

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