Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed • Hacker News Board

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#601

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

MattRix wrote: post #420

roenxi wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I wouldn't accept that approach either. But at least it would be focusing on the risk instead of being a status play. At the moment you're accepting a risk without knowing anyone's antibody titer at all. It says a lot about the situation that nobody is measuring it and nobody minds that it isn't being measured. People's susceptibility to COVID is barely in the conversation. A risk-based strategy is not being empl…

Of course everyone around you being vaccinated is safer and less risky for you (and for them as well). And sure there are other approaches that might be even more effective at reducing risk (like measuring antibodies), but that would also be much more complicated.

What is "less risk"? If you mean being exposed to someone who can shed the virus, vaccinated people can shed the virus asymptomatically. You are far more likely to unknowingly be exposed to the virus from a vaccinated person than from an unvaccinated person.

Our media and so-called health leaders have dramatically oversold the value of these vaccines. Yes, they can help with the severity of reaction when you are exposed but they aren't some defensive bubble.

And I think that's the real issue here - being exposed to the virus and each persons reaction and risks carried in that reaction to the exposure are two different things, but they are lumped together - which shouldn't be.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#602

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

Cederfjard wrote: post #492

syshum wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Vaccination is not 100% effective Nothing is, but my risk from COVID post vaccination is less than other society risks we accept as normal risks of living in a free society, for example my risk of dying in an auto accident is many times greater than my risk from COVID post vaccination >> Vaccinated people do still spread the infection, albeit to a smaller degree I am not sure how this statement is relative to quest…

No one has suggested forcibly injecting anyone. But sure, not allowing people who aren’t vaccinated to participate in all facets of society can be construed as a type of force. Unlike you I see that as reasonable.

>not allowing people who aren’t vaccinated to participate in all facets of society can be construed as a type of force.

"Not allowing" - how are you going to "not allow" without using force of some sort?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#603

Post by Zigurd » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #590

Zigurd wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. Other than in health care, the government is mandating that large enterprises where people work closely with the public or with each other require either vaccination or frequent testing. The same goes for crowded indoor venues: Show proof of vaccination or a recent test. This is a very lax "mandate." Nobody is going to require vaccination to drive a long-haul truck.

>The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. So they are conscripting others to mandate you get vaccinated on their behalf. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like they are conscripting companies to be state actors on their behalf. Good luck with any company trying to hide behind that. It hasn't yet sunk into corporate America the liability plank they are about to walk off of but they better wake up fast or it's g…

How many of the thousands of other ways the workplace is regulated for safety amounting to totalitarianism? Nearly all those regulations pertain to low probability events, which you can tell by the relative scarcity of severed limbs and poisonings etc. Why is this different?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#604

Post by anarticle » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

cronix wrote: post #513

ceejayoz wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger. That's their MO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

Wikipedia says about using wikipedia: > Wikipedia can be a great tool for learning and researching information. However, as with all reference works, Wikipedia is not considered to be a reliable source as not everything in Wikipedia is accurate, comprehensive, or unbiased. So, there's also that to consider. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wik...

I have worked with HEK cells and linked to Wikipedia as it is generalized enough for public consumption.

Here's a Nature Communications paper on HEK293 containing a brief history with an impact factor ~13. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5767

Above 10 is considered of significant worth.

If that's not good enough for you, stick to whatever it is you're good at, and stop citing trash.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#605

Post by Covzire » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #577

Covzire wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's long term impacts are completely unknown. It's a pandemic that is already endemic. It's the theft of people's livelihoods by forcing irreversible medical procedures that they've determined they don't need and wont' give their informed consent for. To anyone still pushing vax mandates, you're a fucking monster.

Sounds like someone is losing their mind, and it probably has little to do with any facts or what is going on with the vaccine. Vaccine mandates have existed since shortly after vaccines existed, and for good reason. Because otherwise thousands or millions of people end up dead that didn’t need to, often completely innocent folks who never even had a choice in the matter, and often horribly to boot. Huge numbers of f…

Read what happened at Nuremberg, the world has been through this before, forcing experimental medical procedures against people's informed consent is not just, fair or anything other than monstrous.

You don't know what saved your life, you're guessing based on propaganda you've been fed. It could be true, but nobody really knows.

Also, adverse reactions to the COVID shots are far more common and more serious than you're willing to admit.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#606

Post by dabernathy89 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #486

dabernathy89 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless they take something that many consider to be quite dangerous. Of course, zero pushback on this nonsense idea

For a healthy person under 35, the odds of dying or having to be hospitalized shortly after receiving the vaccine are slightly higher than the odds of dying from COVID [1]. While the odds of any of these events, including dying from COVID, are low, there are certainly risks. We are faced with only bad choices in this pandemic - take a vaccine that has a high death/hospitalization rate relative to other vaccines, or r…

I'm sorry, but you just can't rely on VAERS data for a comparison like this. Literally anyone can submit a report to VAERS.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#607

Post by dabernathy89 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

newsclues wrote: post #385

dabernathy89 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless they take something that many consider to be quite dangerous. Of course, zero pushback on this nonsense idea

Is it nonsense that the vaccines may be dangerous or that many consider the vaccines to be dangerous?

The former. But saying it this way is just like the GOP saying that "many people are concerned about election integrity" after they spent months lying to the public that it was a giant fraud.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#608

Post by lazide » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

Covzire wrote: post #605

lazide wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like someone is losing their mind, and it probably has little to do with any facts or what is going on with the vaccine. Vaccine mandates have existed since shortly after vaccines existed, and for good reason. Because otherwise thousands or millions of people end up dead that didn’t need to, often completely innocent folks who never even had a choice in the matter, and often horribly to boot. Huge numbers of f…

Read what happened at Nuremberg, the world has been through this before, forcing experimental medical procedures against people's informed consent is not just, fair or anything other than monstrous. You don't know what saved your life, you're guessing based on propaganda you've been fed. It could be true, but nobody really knows. Also, adverse reactions to the COVID shots are far more common and more serious than you…

How do you figure this is not informed, not consensual (you can and apparently are opting out), or propaganda - since you know, I’ve actually experienced it, read the material, found the research and actually read it with a cynical eye and found it sufficiently sound to do it.

If you have actual data that adverse reactions are more common, please do share. Having had the worse reaction of the 20+ people I’ve talked to that had it (weakness for a day or two, 103+ fever, brain fog for a week), and being a bit pissed about it, in hindsight it was just because I hadn’t been sick for so long I’d lost all context. That’s literally less bad than getting the flu.

This is what I mean by losing ones mind - there is no rational basis for comparing this to the Nazi’s literally throwing people in prison camps based on their various racist and eugenic minded shitty ideals and experimenting on them randomly until they were dead. Literally zero. But if there is an unresolved anxiety or other issue going on? That makes perfect sense. And if the anxiety is due to not being willing to face something difficult or not being able to address underlying problems - one natural reaction is to pretend the other thing is actually bad, point fingers, etc.

The problem is? That causes more pain later, because this stuff isn’t going away.

I’ve personally had someone in my life have a severe mental health breakdown over their own inability to face a real danger with Covid and prepare for it (instead opting for the comfortable feeling that ‘it couldn’t happen to us’), resulting in their child getting severely hurt - because they didn’t do the basic diligence it would take to prevent it (with Covid), and the problems it has caused, including the guilt that they also can’t face and end up projecting onto others, and the ongoing behavior issues and blowback has ruined their life. It took something that could have been a nothingburger and instead turned it into a traumatic event with consequences that will echo through generations.

Please, seek help. This is a legitimate problem you appear to be having, and avoiding addressing it will only harm you and everyone around you.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#609

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #597

ceejayoz wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The White House thinks they can force unilateral changes to the union contracts. Well, yes. Contracts can't override Federal regulation. "Sign this contract exempting you from OHSA protections" won't (generally) fly, right?

What federal regulation gives the federal government the magical ability to mandate a medical procedure without consent?

OHSA, for employers subject to it. Medicare puts a lot of hospitals under their jurisdiction standards-wise, as well. Same for airlines. You'll note they've limited the mandate quite a bit to areas where there's wide court agreement the Feds have jurisdiction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/07/us/politics/biden-vaccine...

> Experts said that legal challenges to the rule were all but assured, but precedent is most likely on Mr. Biden’s side. In the past 20 years, “every standard that has been challenged in court has been upheld by federal judges,” David Michaels, a professor at the George Washington University School of Public Health who was a head of OSHA during the Obama administration, said in an interview.

> OSHA also has the authority to quickly issue a rule, known as an emergency temporary standard, if it can show that workers are exposed to grave danger and that the rule is necessary to address it. The rule must also be feasible for employers to enforce.

At the state level, there's plenty of legal precedent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#610

Post by Covzire » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #608

Covzire wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read what happened at Nuremberg, the world has been through this before, forcing experimental medical procedures against people's informed consent is not just, fair or anything other than monstrous. You don't know what saved your life, you're guessing based on propaganda you've been fed. It could be true, but nobody really knows. Also, adverse reactions to the COVID shots are far more common and more serious than you…

How do you figure this is not informed, not consensual (you can and apparently are opting out), or propaganda - since you know, I’ve actually experienced it, read the material, found the research and actually read it with a cynical eye and found it sufficiently sound to do it. If you have actual data that adverse reactions are more common, please do share. Having had the worse reaction of the 20+ people I’ve talked t…

You aren't informed because most information is being carefully censored. You can't possibly be scientifically well informed. Censorship of science by definition destroys science, and you're only parroting all the SV-approved narratives.

There are many people have died and had severe reactions to the vaccine shortly after getting them. Look at VAERS, look at claims that even VAERS is greatly under reported. look at how many more people are dying, despite the vaccine. The vast majority of American's have some form of natural immunity. Forced vaccinations or tying them to ones ability to feed their family is unconscionably evil. You'll see in 2022.