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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#601
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal? Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you. Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever. > George Floyd and other black criminals This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the…

> Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you. You cannot seriously believe he was not a criminal and a junkie. Here the left wing sources about his criminal history: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html Here is left wing source about his drug use: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/08/us/derek-chauvin-trial-ge... > Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standard…

> left wing sources

The NY Times is NOT left wing, it is liberal. Same with CNN. Also, the Times article says he moved away to get a fresh start. Do you believe a person is ALWAYS a junkie or criminal? I've been to jail. Does that mean I am a criminal, permanently?

Since when are police allowed to be executioners? How can you be ok with that? Why can't non-lethal force be used, a person brought to jail, and then charged with a crime. He wasn't charged with anything, and in America I thought people were "innocent until proven guilty."

>I'm not a racist,

So you are one of the only humans I have ever met who has no unconscious bias, is perfectly aware of the entirety of their mind, and does not need anyone else to hold up a mirror for them to show them their blind spots. Got it.

> It just happens way to often by left wing people. In fact, you just called me racist in the same message.

You should hear what I've been called by right wing people. And I'm not saying all racists are nazis. Some racists are just racist without knowing it, some are "culturally racist" like much of my family - ignorant, usually. Some are just racist and don't want to exterminate other races, but believe all sorts of bullshit bell-curve garbage. There are plenty of other categories.

>Even criminals have these rights.

Yes, we agree. And what was being protested last year was the unequal application of those rights, and police forces acting as judges, juries, and executioners, when they are supposed to be people who apprehend (not kill) criminals or gather evidence to use at a trial. I used to live in a 99% white neighborhood. My former roommate was a black man. I never had a front license plate on my car (illegal here) in the three years I lived there and never had a problem. He drove without one for a week and got pulled over three times. By cops who "weren't racist" according to them. You think those cops thought they were racist? You could have even been one of them for all I know.

>So it's OK to rape the rapist, I got it

No, I don't believe in an eye for eye but you keep putting up straw men to try to make me into some caricature of what you think a left wing person is, like how calling people nazis happens often so I'm obviously doing it, when you were the first person to mention them at all anyways.

In fact, every single person on the left that I know of is pretty against retributive justice and instead prefers rehabilitative justice. In a rehabilitative system, someone like George Floyd would have gotten addiction counseling, support as he was getting back on his feet, and help keeping his life in order, and the protests of last year would likely never have happened. This is just more projection from you. The right wing is always the one who is all about eye-for-an-eye - how many right wing people are calling for the abolition of the death penalty? Isn't "tough on crime" usually a big hit with the right wing voting bloc? Even liberals are on board with that garbage. How many prison abolitionists can you name on the right or even center? It's how we end up with shit like the Clinton crime bill or whatever.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

> Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. Not really - the US looks really attractive from the outside - Hollywood propaganda probably does the heavy lifting. The reality is disappointing. Before I immigrated, I told an American expat friend my plans and he asked me a bewildered "Why?!" and that surprised me a little because "The greatest coun…

Agree. I decided to move to Australia instead. That was a very good choice!

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to look it up from the time and place I was there, I'll edit if I find it in two hours or make a separate comment edit: Les Confins du Monde (English: To the Ends of the World), 2018, directed by Guillaume Nicloux I'm not immediately seeing where to stream it, I would really like to view it again! With English subtitles!

Thank you. You're right, doesn't seem to be streaming yet. https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/to-the-ends-of-the-world

A DVD is available on Amazon without subtitles.

The first step

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#604
post #579
post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So confused. "Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal." -- Immortal Technique

I don't know what's confusing about it. After WW2, Stalin immediately began claiming as much of western Europe as possible. Historical documents reveal he wanted the Warsaw Pact to extend over all of Europe. The only thing that prevented this was the US/UK forces immediately after WW2. The Berlin Airlift wasn't supported by the French government, because they viewed Berlin as a lost cause. The Netherlands would have…

Cannot complain about your evil overlords if they give you prosperity, right?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#605
post #19

I am a software developer in the US with a Vietnamese origin, so I am no historian and my views are probably skewed. I am among the minority Northern Vietnamese people in the US, most Vietnamese people in the Bay Area are (refugees) from the South. People can tell where one comes from with one's accent. It was undeniable that much suffering and injustice was done for Southern people, especially after the war ended. S…

>Many of the Northern people also have resentments with the current government as much as anyone else. However, I have to say much of the suffering and conflict is fading. I am so glad that in the last three years I was in the Bay Area, I have made many new Vietnamese friends, and have gone to many Vietnamese-owned shops buying groceries. I have not once had bad experiences with anyone in here. We spoke to each other and caring about each other despite of the differences.

Former bureaucrats and their children, who fled Vietnam before 2009, are always having disgruntled feeling against Vietnam and Vietnamese successes in general. I know a bunch of them but they won't exist much any longer since Vietnam will aggressively become more powerful and extend its Communist influence overseas. It's merely a matter of time that you will not only see hatred from anti-Communist side disappearing but also pro-Communist side triumphs.

I strolled around many Chinatowns across the US to Europe, and I see PRC flags and Chinese United Fronts everywhere. This is the future of overseas Vietnamese communities.

>My (personal and flawed) conclusion is that it wasn't the policy, the brainwashing, or the political power of communism, or the help of Russia that made the North win. They won despite despite being poor as hell, they won despite being communist, and they won despite having lost more troops. They won because they took part in the war with a sense of righteousness.

They won because they have been largely smarter than history. Trần Văn Hương, a former top RVN official, once said that only Northerners can reign the country supreme, while Southerners and Centralers are more fitting at commerce and warfare which Northerners are also very proficient. This is also my similar observation in the overseas Vietnamese communities where those Vietnamese people of Northern background or Chinese Vietnamese are largely more successful than anyone in the community - mostly Northerners.

The North won because it had been cultured, determined, militant, more clever due to centures of exposure with threats from China.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of the word "propaganda", the first two things that come to mind are the Nazis and the "fight against communism".

Because South Korea would be so much better off today had it fallen to Kim Il Sung rule...

The carpet bombing of North Korea was one of the great war crimes in history. 15% of the population died. 85% of the buildings were destroyed. Many, many cities were wiped off the map forever.

All this for a country that had never offered the slightest threat to the United States.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

> Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. Not really - the US looks really attractive from the outside - Hollywood propaganda probably does the heavy lifting. The reality is disappointing. Before I immigrated, I told an American expat friend my plans and he asked me a bewildered "Why?!" and that surprised me a little because "The greatest coun…

Sure, if we compare like for like, I suppose other rich nations, those are real alternatives, However, since I’m black I am also aware of the incredibly prevalent casual racism of the other G7. It’s not even a point of discussion it’s so common, and good luck trying to get government help in your language if it isn’t English, or trying to obtain citizenship (Japan).

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

>Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to Yes, because they are richest natiom in the world. How is that statement not a complete non sequitur to what was being discussed?

The immediate post I responded to was arguing that the US doesn’t do the right thing, but tries to extract max profits for its big businesses and a bunch of foreign policy mistakes.

My point was the US is more than that, and “good” as illustrated by its popularity with immigrants. You can, actually, in this court system receive justice, you can speak your mind at least legally without reprisal. You can leave this nation if you so choose.

Being just a “rich” nation isn’t it. There are many rich nations and many not as accommodating.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

So your argument is: if Finland is a nice place to live, then it has the moral right to invade any country where standards of living are lower? Also before US involvement all countries were colonies, do you think being repeatedly invaded and bombed has any negative effects?

No, it’s not about standards of living, it’s about defending people. If you’re in a position to help then you should! South Vietnam was invaded, South Korea was invaded. Would you prefer South Korea to be a North Korea?

I agree bombings, chemical warfare and the like are some of the worst outcomes for people, but what would you suggest for the Koreans under attack? Not my problem? I don’t have the moral authority to get involved? Send aid? What about the Cambodians massacred? No help from anyone and they were absolutely brutally destroyed by the millions. Millions. We haven’t even spoken of the millions in the 20s in Eastern Europe or the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I can’t so easily write off those dead, and I don’t think inaction is the answer, but war.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. But did not actually manage to replicate to what they did in WWII. Backup these results with data is not the way to go. You have to proof the same results could have not been achieved without force. Which is impossible to proof IMO

>> the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. Right there is half of the animosity behind the cold war. Try telling a Russian that it was the US that "ended" WWII. Remember to duck. The US bombings of Japan were bad, but worse was the threat of a Russian invasion of the home islands. Japan decided that it would rather be occupied by Americans than Russians. And it was Russian troops on the streets of Berlin. T…

True, the Americans were the better alternative for hegemon, hands down.
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