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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

rarehistoricalphotos.com

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#491

Post by SirLotsaLocks »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #469
cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

>US looked like a force of good after WW2, but that deteriorated quickly. Not that other western nation states are holy, but the US seems to be the ringleader. Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana. What's your alternative?

>Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana.

It's not really much of a Pax Americana in the middle east or Central/South America. East Asia seems to be next too. "Pax Americana" has definitely been amazing for the west and it's friends but as countries like China and India start to challenge that, true colors will probably start to show as the existing world power(s) fight to keep that title.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#492

Post by DeliriumTrigger »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #469
cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

>US looked like a force of good after WW2, but that deteriorated quickly. Not that other western nation states are holy, but the US seems to be the ringleader. Humanity has seen the most positive growth by far under Pax Americana. What's your alternative?

Stop with the whataboutism we don't know if there was a better alternative because we hadn't have the chance to see one. It's that easy it could have been worse or better.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#493

Post by shp0ngle »

cies wrote: post #474
shp0ngle wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well nowadays the government is much better and basically tolerable. Torture and death sentences are still present, but I would not say widespread, unlike in the hardest years of communism. There are political prisoners, but it’s not random and widespread. Coincidentally, Vietnamese communist government nowadays tries to be Best Friend with USA.

> Torture and death sentences are still present, but I would not say widespread Also in the US that you seem to defend...

I am not defending or commenting on US itself, I have never been there honestly.

I am kind of defending US actions in Vietnam, and really not US actions themselves, but the South Vietnam government (US did some bad stuff there)

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#494

Post by DeliriumTrigger »

opium_tea wrote: post #483
Nimitz14 wrote: post #403

> Viet Cong meet the enemy face-to-face, most likely in the Mekong Delta or Plain of Reeds. This rare image shows both sides in combat, ARVN soldiers at the top and Viet Cong in the foreground. The VC have flanked the enemy at left and right, which likely meant the ARVN unit was wiped out. This photo is a well known to be staged. Makes me doubt the authenticity of everything else.

I thought that looked pretty dubious. Do you know of anywhere to read up on it? edit: some reddit discussion here https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/44gfpz/astonishing...

You mean there weren't photo ops on the american side? Come on it's war there is propaganda everywhere take it all with a grain of doubt.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#495

Post by joyeuse6701 »

cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

The Southern Vietnamese population in the US would strongly disagree with you. One shouldn’t forget what happened to them after the U.S. pulled out. It wasn’t a rainbows and sunshine reunification, but murder, anguish and famine.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#496

Post by h0l0cube »

pembrook wrote: post #443
cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

Yes, the world is a chaotic reflexive system and trying to manipulate it always creates unintended consequences. The US absolutely does dumb stuff all the time, and power always gets abused. But for a contrarian view on the “US Bad” narrative, check out a book called The Accidental Superpower Here’s a good summary of the book: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/your-book-review-the-a... It presents an interesting…

> Absent the US existing, the world doesn’t suddenly become a utopia of people living happily ever after.

And importantly we can't know the counterfactual, so we can't claim that the US is responsible for all those good outcomes with any real certainty, and it's entirely possible that the incentives were there no matter which nation had the resources to control global affairs.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#497

Post by joyeuse6701 »

cies wrote: post #470
dncornholio wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. But did not actually manage to replicate to what they did in WWII. Backup these results with data is not the way to go. You have to proof the same results could have not been achieved without force. Which is impossible to proof IMO

> goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. Sadly? It's about time. Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, most of Latin America, many places in Africa. They all have a US hangover. > US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. Serious? What propaganda outlet do you read? They try to help their big biz make max profits. That's all. That's not "the right thing". Yeah sure they sell…

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#498

Post by SirLotsaLocks »

Glawen wrote: post #489
cies wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complete misunderstanding So admit it, say sorry, pay reparations.

Say sorry, why not, but demanding to pay back I don't understand. It is not the same people in power nor the same population, why should they pay for their parents? It is preposterous. And where do you stop with this logic, neolithic?

They're still paying the price for what the US did to them, I don't think it's too uncommon for reparations to be payed by different people because usually reparations are on behalf of the government itself. If a different government took over the US then I think it would be a bit unfair to expect reparations. But as it stands it's the same government and a lot of the people who took part in the atrocities are still alive today, it's not like it happened hundreds of years ago.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#499

Post by andrepd »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #497
cies wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. Sadly? It's about time. Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, most of Latin America, many places in Africa. They all have a US hangover. > US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. Serious? What propaganda outlet do you read? They try to help their big biz make max profits. That's all. That's not "the right thing". Yeah sure they sell…

Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.

>Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to

Yes, because they are richest natiom in the world. How is that statement not a complete non sequitur to what was being discussed?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#500

Post by andrepd »

roenxi wrote: post #461
cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

There is no 'right' and 'wrong' side of history. There are complicated shades of grey coloured by propaganda. And if there was a right side of history, the US has a very credible claim to it. They've pushed science and the arts forward, promoted freedom as a cultural aspiration rather than rule by a monarch and generally acted as a credible supporting force for the greatest improvement of living standards the world h…

> promoted freedom as a cultural aspiration rather than rule by a monarch

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in...

Iran '53 and Guatemala '54 are some of my favourites, as is Timor.

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