Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Please use good faith arguments.
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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
601–610 of 623 posts
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#602Earlier quoted context omitted.
The hell? Any decisions that involve more than one person involve tyranny?
The tyranny of the majority is perhaps the reference?
Sure you could count every instance of someone not getting their will, which is unavoidable when decisions affect more than one person, as tyranny. But I don't think that's a very useful definition.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#603Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting, yeah those are good points. I can certainly see it reducing the severity of disputes in theory. In practice though I'm skeptical. I've read a little about the history of UAW. They really seemed to view workers vs mgmt as an adversarial zero sum game. Meanwhile Toyota were developing their production system using the kaizen principle of bottom up continuous improvement. Unions played a huge role in making…
Ford sold 900,000 F150s in 2019. Toyota sold about 336,000 Camrys. They sold a little over 110,000 Tundras. About 200,000 Tacomas. And Ford gets GIANT markups on the F150s, they are super profitable for them and the best selling truck for many many years now. Toyota, Honda aren't even close to American truck and SUV sales. So explain to me again how US autos aren't competitive with Japanese brands?
"For a long time" was the qualifier. I was talking about the 70s and 80s when Japanese imports were disrupting the market.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#604Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please use good faith arguments.
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This is the sort of reply I expect from the more popular subreddits on Reddit, and not HN. I recommend you check out the community guidelines:
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#605Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla regularly compensates Elon with stock. In 2018, for example, Tesla gave him options valued at $2.282 billion — with a “b” [1]. That’s over four million percent more than the median employee’s total compensation. But he’d rather union bust than be a slightly less rich centibillionaire. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/business/highest-pa...
That's a non sequitur. What you have cited isn't Tesla giving its employees Elon's Tesla shares. Yes, Tesla did offer Elon share options. He still has to pay for them with his own money. The reason why these options are lucrative is precisely because the company (funded substantially by Elon placing his own wealth on the line) has risen under his stewardship. Great, so bring a union in. Maybe median wages will briefl…
Contrary to your initial comment, it really seems like you have a problem with unions (also, respectfully, you may want to look up what “non sequitur” means).
This discussion clearly isn’t going anywhere, so I’m ducking out. Have a nice day!
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#606Earlier quoted context omitted.
It automatically creates an adversarial relationship. Terrible way to live life on either side of that construct. No one should be forced to work anywhere. Which also means working isn’t a right. Work somewhere that works with you and establish a healthy relationship. Set expectations and be clear on what is desired. One spends much of their time working, to do it in such a way where a cordial relationship is not the…
That’s easy to say, but which other auto plant in the Bay Area should workers go to work at? There aren’t any others.
No one said a profession was guaranteed labor. Who made that a right?
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#607Earlier quoted context omitted.
It automatically creates an adversarial relationship. Terrible way to live life on either side of that construct. No one should be forced to work anywhere. Which also means working isn’t a right. Work somewhere that works with you and establish a healthy relationship. Set expectations and be clear on what is desired. One spends much of their time working, to do it in such a way where a cordial relationship is not the…
In many companies, you don't need a union to make it adversarial: it's already an adversarial relationship. It's a war with only one side shooting. The union just attempts to arm the other side. It would be great if leadership and employees were actually on the same side (rather than just in words), with things like employee representation on the board, and fair bargaining for wages with equal power on either side, b…
That’s a terrible default. That will make a country collapse. I guess you don’t have to look around too hard then to see that coming into fruition.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#608Earlier quoted context omitted.
Furthermore, the idea that the federal government can coerce private companies into taking actions which the government is explicitly Constitutionally denied (censorship) is scary in the extreme. People need to think these things through ahead of them getting too far into Godwin's Law territory.
The government isn't forcing Twitter to delete the message, they're forcing Musk to delete it. There's a big difference.
Just the levels of indirection involved in the tyranny.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#609Earlier quoted context omitted.
It could also be the case that US unions operate in a country where power is held by a class of people who would really prefer their serfs to STFU and get back to whatever dangerous, ill-paid task they were assigned. When the most egregious wrongs are simply illegal and never happen then it is much easier for capital and labor to have a less adversarial relationship, but when you operate in a country like the US I wo…
Oh, German unions have their problems as well. > It could also be the case that US unions operate in a country where power is held by a class of people who would really prefer their serfs to STFU and get back to whatever dangerous, ill-paid task they were assigned. What makes you think European business owners are less greedy or evil? Capital is internationally mobile, and it's the same index funds owning a good chun…
Business owners in Europe are not any less greedy or evil, they are simply constrained by laws and the political environment to be unable to commit the worst offenses.
Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board
#610Calling this tweet "anti-union" seems like spin. It is pointing out facts that one might want to consider before deciding to unionize. The fact that employees lose stock options when they unionize isn't so much a threat as it is a fact about how unions work because historically unions are against any kind of incentive or merit pay so they refuse options as compensation. It is a fact that UAW hasn't negotiated options…
It's so odd that one of the key aspects of socialism is workers owning the means to production (the company).
...and one of the main things Unions prevent - is employee ownership in the company. Crazy.