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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#581

Post by sjwright »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #221
pmichaud wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment seems really confused. It seems like you think Musk is “the richest human” in terms of liquid cash, and that that abundance of liquidity came from Tesla profits that could have been divvied up among the employees. Is that right?

No, I assume a significant amount is Tesla stock. Which could be used as compensation for workers, if Elon weren’t threatening to withhold it to prevent them from unionizing.

That makes no sense. Elon's Tesla stock isn't Tesla's to give away to its employees.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#582

Post by cinntaile »

loceng wrote: post #540
cinntaile wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I tell you that you can join a union but if you do you won't get stock options, then I have negotiated with you?

You can then refuse to work, as a group, and that will apply pressure to Tesla.

You evaded the question.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#583

Post by frosted-flakes »

smitty1e wrote: post #528
onelovetwo wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats complete nonsense. This isn't the private company making a decision on its platform, this is a government agency forcefully having a tweet removed.

Furthermore, the idea that the federal government can coerce private companies into taking actions which the government is explicitly Constitutionally denied (censorship) is scary in the extreme. People need to think these things through ahead of them getting too far into Godwin's Law territory.

The government isn't forcing Twitter to delete the message, they're forcing Musk to delete it. There's a big difference.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#584

Post by jakelazaroff »

sjwright wrote: post #581
jakelazaroff wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I assume a significant amount is Tesla stock. Which could be used as compensation for workers, if Elon weren’t threatening to withhold it to prevent them from unionizing.

That makes no sense. Elon's Tesla stock isn't Tesla's to give away to its employees.

Tesla regularly compensates Elon with stock. In 2018, for example, Tesla gave him options valued at $2.282 billion — with a “b” [1].

That’s over four million percent more than the median employee’s total compensation. But he’d rather union bust than be a slightly less rich centibillionaire.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/business/highest-pa...

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#585

Post by smitty1e »

tw04 wrote: post #554
smitty1e wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the First Amendment amount to a fart in a thunderstorm any longer? If anyone getting paid out of taxpayer funds doesn't grok the Bill of Rights, then their employment is what needs deleting.

I can't tell if you're being intentionally dense. Elon mixing his personal and business facing statements on his personal twitter account were his doing. He can no longer speak as a private citizen about Tesla on his twitter account, period. Anything he tweets is rightfully considered an official statement by a company representative. By your logic, Elon could tweet Tesla's financial results on twitter during a quiet…

> He can no longer speak as a private citizen about Tesla on his twitter account, period. Anything he tweets is rightfully considered an official statement by a company representative.

If equality before the law were a meaningful concept any longer, the distinction between business accounts with SEC constraints as modifying the 1A might be coherent.

These days the government enjoys the tyranny of selective enforcement (e.g. riots vs. "peaceful protests") to the extent that regarding your point as a fair one is challenging.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#586

Post by sellyme »

smitty1e wrote: post #528
onelovetwo wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats complete nonsense. This isn't the private company making a decision on its platform, this is a government agency forcefully having a tweet removed.

Furthermore, the idea that the federal government can coerce private companies into taking actions which the government is explicitly Constitutionally denied (censorship) is scary in the extreme. People need to think these things through ahead of them getting too far into Godwin's Law territory.

If I were to believe that the US Constitution made it impossible for the government to prevent companies from lying to employees about their rights, my conclusion would be "wow, the US Constitution is a pile of trash, let's get that fixed", not defending the megacorporations that are actively lying to millions in a desperate attempt to siphon more money out of the populace.

I don't understand the fascination of some sects of the United States with defending such obviously detrimental practices with "well under an extremely loose reading of this amendment it might technically be allowed, and as we all know amendments can't possibly be changed so there's nothing we can do".

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#587

Post by rusty-rust »

utrechtsouth wrote: post #574
LB232323 wrote: post #572

Labor was once fighting for their rights with rifles and unprecedented multicultural unity. Workers knew their enemy very clearly and knew how to attain their goals. The alternative was starvation and corporate enslavement. Now the concern is deleting tweets. Embourgeoisiement has slowed and confused the struggle of labor. The reckoning of the owner class is long overdue, as evidenced by this typical hubris. In today…

It's ironic that these workers "liberation" movements have resulted in the worlds largest slave labor camps and poverty on a scale never seen in free market countries. Not to mention genocide on a scale surpassing the nazis.

Poverty is just another form of slavery. Using your line of hyperbole I could also say the same for any developed capitalist nation.

Now more to your point. The worker movements in the developed west was not shy to use force.

An example in England would be workers marching to a factory owners house demanding better working conditions or else they’d kill him. I believe similar events also happened in the US.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#588

Post by tacitusarc »

rusty-rust wrote: post #587
utrechtsouth wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic that these workers "liberation" movements have resulted in the worlds largest slave labor camps and poverty on a scale never seen in free market countries. Not to mention genocide on a scale surpassing the nazis.

Poverty is just another form of slavery. Using your line of hyperbole I could also say the same for any developed capitalist nation. Now more to your point. The worker movements in the developed west was not shy to use force. An example in England would be workers marching to a factory owners house demanding better working conditions or else they’d kill him. I believe similar events also happened in the US.

Poverty is not another form of slavery and claiming that downplays in the extreme what slavery actually was. That is absolute nonsense.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#589

Post by mullingitover »

koonsolo wrote: post #510
mullingitover wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this would be the case in Europe. Germany has had 'codetermination' laws for decades, where they have (typically union) representation on the boards of large corporations[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany

This doesn't invalidate my remark though. Nothing says these union board members are there to make the company more competitive. They are there to provide better working conditions.

Still, the point stands that of all the European states, labor is arguably strongest in Germany, and at the same time Germany industry is extremely competitive. If strong labor was a huge competitive disadvantage you'd think Germany would be falling behind, but instead it's quite the opposite.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#590

Post by tacitusarc »

anoncake wrote: post #577
cwhiz wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is much closer to tyranny.

The hell? Any decisions that involve more than one person involve tyranny?

The tyranny of the majority is perhaps the reference?
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