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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

bbc.com

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#601

Post by mc32 »

rayiner wrote: post #578
nine_k wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure it's a majority, just a very vocal and intolerant group, seen by many non-participants as doing a virtuous thing, fighting for social justice. Of course most businesses would not oppose such a force, because otherwise they will be a target themselves, and enough of a public opinion would be against them, at least vaguely. They have everything to lose, and very little to win if they do not conform. T…

Yeah, I’m very skeptical of who is the “majority” here. If you read Twitter and the NYT, you’d think that my minority group (American Muslim immigrants) is full of people like Ilhan Omar and Linda Sarsour. And it’s not. I literally know more Bangladeshi Trump supporters than super-progressive Bangladeshis. Plenty more Democrats, sure, but not particularly liberal ones. One thing that’s important to keep in mind is th…

It's not unusual for 0-gen or 1st gen immigrants to be conservative (at least culturally and fiscally). The Republican party to their detriment has not taken advantage of this reality --being too busy fighting for somewhat edge cases or constituencies (conservative religion and corp interests) to the detriment of growing their base. Not that dems have not been guilty of the same mistakes (catering to edge constituencies like the progs and corp interests, just differently).

If the Republicans could find a candidate who better reached out to conservative minorities while not alienating their present constituencies they certainly would prove a strong contender, specially if the Democrats veer further to the Progressive agenda. Trump's problem was while he appealed to more minorities than most past Republicans he did not market it well and didn't put it front and center enough and also turned off the so called 'soccer moms' with his poor approach to the pandemic.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#602

Post by bigger_cheese »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

Socrates is a prominent early example of "cancel culture" he was cancelled circa 400 BC for Impiety and corrupting the youth of Athens.

I suppose we are fortunate that nowadays a twitter ban doesn't come with an accompanying sip of hemlock.

Impiety is essentially failing to respect something considered sacred.

To (mis)quote another controversial philosopher "History repeats itself, first as tragedy than as farce"

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#603

Post by drhayes9 »

musicale wrote: post #589

I'm OK with people saying "you wrote a terrible book that nobody should buy or read." I'm less OK with people saying "because you wrote a terrible book, we need to ensure that you are severely punished, that you present a public confession and apology for writing it, and that none of your writing is ever published or read again by anyone."

Are you thinking of something specific here?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#604

Post by YeezyMode »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #148
standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

> There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Granted, but what's the logic here? We ought to content ourselves with regression so long as no one is being imprisoned or killed? We want to progress, not regress . We don't want a conformist society, w…

You say "we" want x&y almost as if they are firm, broadly held opinions. If there were a flash Brexit-style vote across the USA today, and democracy were on the ballot against some type of Trump-led monarchy, and the majority of the country voted for a system that dismantles all the things you value, are you now going to accept the fair and democratic result or fight back? Would you resort to blaming the masses for being uneducated and not knowing what's good for them? The Paradox of Tolerance may seem like some abstract concept but it could very well be central to an actual decision you'll have to make.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#605

Post by scythe »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

On this specific subject it's hard to think of parallels and if there were parallels then that was bad anyway.

>He said they may be concerned that an "anonymous lynch mob will turn up online and make their lives a misery".

>[...]

>The 66-year-old said he was worried that less established authors were self-censoring by avoiding writing from certain viewpoints or including characters outside their immediate experiences.

In the past you might have had e.g. Catcher in the Rye or Lolita or whatever banned from libraries, but low-profile authors weren't receiving death threats. The important question isn't whether the critics are fair or what their politics are; the important question is what kind of an impact do they have, and a chilling effect is worth being concerned about.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#606

Post by taurath »

rayiner wrote: post #570
taurath wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the daily beast - > McNeil repeatedly made racist and sexist remarks throughout the trip including, according to two complaints, using the “n-word.” I don’t understand how this is related to cancel culture, given it’s been corporate policy to not make racist and sexist remarks for decades? And just, regular human decency? What are the arguments for keeping this person employed by a major news organization?

That’s not what he did, any more than the dictionary is “racist” for printing a slur in order to refer to it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/new-york-times-don-m...

From the article:

> In the absence of a full accounting of this episode, I can’t make any firm judgment about the merits of McNeil’s departure. For all I know, he could have been acting unprofessionally for years, and it took a few teens to force the Times to take action it should have taken years ago.

So this is a he said they said situation. The nymag article doesn’t account for the sexist accusations as well. The NYT say they performed an investigation and based on that decided to fire him. So if you believe the NYT is liable to fire a senior reporter over the say so if a few “woke” college students you will feel justified to protest this. If you believe the NYT corroborated the college students story that were extremely uncomfortable due to actual sexist/racist behavior and then fired him, it doesnt look like much of a story.

Neither you nor I know the specifics of what he said or didn’t say - that’s only him, the students, and maybe to an extent the NYT investigators. I’m not saying I inherently agree with the assessment of one side at all here, just that to say he was “canceled” is quite a bit of a reach.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#607

Post by Igelau »

taurath wrote: post #565
leereeves wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it happens, there's an example being discussed here on HN right now: the NYT pushed out Donald McNeil Jr. for saying "You should never call someone a [N-word]". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306020

From the daily beast - > McNeil repeatedly made racist and sexist remarks throughout the trip including, according to two complaints, using the “n-word.” I don’t understand how this is related to cancel culture, given it’s been corporate policy to not make racist and sexist remarks for decades? And just, regular human decency? What are the arguments for keeping this person employed by a major news organization?

If you don't understand, you're not paying attention. There's a big difference between saying a word and using a word. He was answering a question about someone else's use of the word and trying to clarify. What he essentially said was "Did she actually say 'n_____'?"

It sounds to me like a few kids at this conference were butthurt for being told they were wrong about completely unrelated questions, and pounced like jackals for anything to make this guy look like a nazi. "I might be completely wrong about Jared Diamond and look like a dumbass... but 'n______' came out of this guy's mouth at some point! Get him!"

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#608

Post by konjin »

redteddy23 wrote: post #599
konjin wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech is free speech you don't like.

I don't like the Dune prequels, Monetarism or Atlas Shrugged. None of them is hate speech.

Atlas Shrugged is sexist to the point it justifies rape.

That is the definition of sexual terrorism and hate speech against women.

I'm sorry you're not as woke as you think you are, please provide your name and workplace email to expedite your cancellation. Thank you for your cooperation in stomping out fascism.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#609

Post by Erem »

jtbayly wrote: post #572
nine_k wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not even try to discuss the intricacies of Trinity; the Nicene Council tried hard to come to an agreement regarding it, and in 1054, details of it were the cause of the Great Schism.

We’re not talking about the intricacies, though. We’re talking about the basics of it. Every Christian worships Jesus as God. No Muslim will. It’s that simple. When Muhammad says that Jesus is a prophet, it is a rejection of what Jesus claimed about Himself. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.” Many of course have tried to act as though the two are compatible, but when you co…

If you believe this, then you must also believe that Christians and Jews do not worship the same God since obviously Jews do not believe in the deity of Jesus either.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#610

Post by rayiner »

mc32 wrote: post #601
rayiner wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m very skeptical of who is the “majority” here. If you read Twitter and the NYT, you’d think that my minority group (American Muslim immigrants) is full of people like Ilhan Omar and Linda Sarsour. And it’s not. I literally know more Bangladeshi Trump supporters than super-progressive Bangladeshis. Plenty more Democrats, sure, but not particularly liberal ones. One thing that’s important to keep in mind is th…

It's not unusual for 0-gen or 1st gen immigrants to be conservative (at least culturally and fiscally). The Republican party to their detriment has not taken advantage of this reality --being too busy fighting for somewhat edge cases or constituencies (conservative religion and corp interests) to the detriment of growing their base. Not that dems have not been guilty of the same mistakes (catering to edge constituenc…

My mom reliably votes Democrat but is basically conservative. She was Trump-curious (she loves his “energy” lol) until he stopped governing in the last six months during the pandemic.

It’s not clear to me that you can make the coalition work. It depends on what issues you surface. Opposition to cancel culture is apparently something right wingers and my mom can both get behind—apropos nothing, she shared Bill Maher’s recent segment about McNeil on Facebook. I don’t think she’s ever watched Bill Maher in her life.

But of course, opposing cancel culture and winning back nervous Democrats like my mom is also a clear opening for... Democrats. Hint hint.

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