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Ethereum 2.0 launches

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#601
post #507

This might be as good a place as any to ask, since I'm completely out of the loop on the scene: Are there any successful crypto schemes that use human effort (labour) instead of capital/computing effort? Something like Captcha or Mechanical Turk, hopefully something generally useful to society at large. Solving problems that computers can't (yet). It would seem to be a way to avoid the rich-get-richer aspect because…

> hopefully something generally useful to society at large

If it is useful then it won't be secure because it would be free to "hash". The mechanism has to be costly. Proof-of-work is in many ways proof-of-waste. If tomorrow we find out that hashing is profitable then everyone can start hashing and be able to attack the chain for free (subsidized by the usefulness). Only the hash power above the useful level can add security.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#602
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that does have to be enforced via incentives/cryptography, and with reference to a clock.

Well it is enforced by the protocol on which all node agree and there needs to be a mechanism for syncing clocks across nodes (also defined by the protocol) but they exist, e.g. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8946264 Not 100% sure what ETH is using here but there is a mechanism. If someone would want to fake timestamps, they would need to deviate from the protocol and would thus not be on chain.

You are simply raising the fundamental difficulty with blockchains. How do you know what is the true chain in an adversary environment (the internet)? You gave us the question and no answer

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#603
post #430

One question - why didn't Bitcoin drop to zero? I know, VHS survive and Betamax didn't, but unlike Betamax, Ethereum is pretty popular for everything, not just for low-class commodity speculation.

There still isn't a lot of real-world use of crypto. Even all the DeFi stuff on Ethereum, while innovative, is derivatives on speculative crypto assets. As long as speculation is the main thing going on in crypto, BTC is king, since it is purely speculative, has the best name recognition, and doesn't try to hide that fact.

Agree on all point. Especially with Ethereums great innovations in marketing. Sadly their technical innovations are lacking beyond smoke and mirrors

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#604

I am sorry to say this, but it will not fly. Amateur spaghetti code, even in a good language like Go, will not scale, by definition. Certain design decisions for achieving scalability should have been adopted from the day one. Basically, it is all the principles behind FP and Erlang - share nothing, in the first place. Scalability comes from being pure functional. This is the main conclusion from last 30 or 40 years…

They don't even have sound theory to how the network will work. I think bad code is the last of their problems

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#605
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you "don't have humans doing anything", then Ethereum is just a very slow and inefficient API and protocol layer. However, if you want to use services or exchange goods, then people are involved. A simple example: person A requests goods or services from person B. According to Ethereum website, "Customers have a secure, built-in guarantee that funds will only change hands if you provide what was agreed." Person B…

As far as I understand it, that's not the sort of thing Ethereum contracts would cover. The contract is just an computer agreement between trustless systems to run code. Vitalik Buterin has said he regrets the term "smart contracts" because of the usual meaning of the word contracts: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/105116093269977088... > To be clear, at this point I quite regret adopting the term "smart co…

> The contract is just an computer agreement between trustless systems to run code.

Then, as I said, it's just a very slow and ineffecient API and protocol.

However, to quote ethereum's marketing material [1]

--- start quote ---

Ethereum allows you to move money, or make agreements, directly with someone else. You don't need to go through intermediary companies.

Commerce guarantees

Customers have a secure, built-in guarantee that funds will only change hands if you provide what was agreed.

--- end quote ---

This directly involves people. With all the issues described above.

On their dapps page [2] currently:

- Foundation. Buy, trade, and sell unique digital artwork and fashion from some incredible artists, musicians, and brands.

- PoolTogether. Buy a ticket for the no-loss lottery.

- Augur. Bet on outcomes of sports, economics, and more world events.

etc. etc.

All this involves people and the belief that they will honor their end of the deal.

[1] https://ethereum.org/en/what-is-ethereum/

[2] https://ethereum.org/en/dapps/

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is scarce. Applying the term scarcity across multiple cryptocurrencies means you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Not at all. From a market perspective, Bitcoin is not scarce in the same sense that gold or diamonds are scarce. If people want to buy into cryptocurrency, Bitcoin is far from their only option. As this whole discussion around Ethereum makes clear, other cryptocurrencies are viable. As I mentioned earlier, other Bitcoins are clearly viable. Yes, the number of Bitcoins in a given fork has a limit, assuming whoever con…

it's like saying gold isn't scarce because there are other metal compounds. you're not making sense at all. if you want to interpret scarcity this way - feel free, but be informed that pretty much everyone else will look at you weird.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laypeople know what benefit the internet Yes that's true now, but what about in 1997? That's what year it is in Ethereum now.

Well to be fair, transferring information instantly was pretty great even in 1997.

Well to be fair, transferring money instantly would be pretty great for 2020.

I mean, the only way I can pay rent to my landlord in 2020 is by having my bank send them a physical check that takes 5d to arrive (during which time no-one gets any interest), or then use multiple Zelle payments since I have an artificial cap that is lower than my rent.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/arbingsam/status/1333669126125068289 Heres one novel idea I have just seen in my twitter feed for a yearn strategy[1]. You deposit tokens to the yearn contract which employs different strategies to lend/spend those tokens in ways that generate profit for everyone participating in the contract. This strategy is taking up the rest of the bets that trump wont be re-elected on a decentralised predicti…

I don't entirely understand this, but am I gathering that it's holding money for a "bet," similar to paying into a horsetrack and then going back to collect if your horse wins? Or is it an escrow where, during the time the money is held, it "generates profit" (invested elsewhere?) and then pays a return to those who contributed later? fwiw - I don't have a yearn account, and am consequently unable to view your yearn…

So yeah, it places a bet on augur, buying as many shares as it can for "no trump wont be elected" which are currently around 90c and will resolve to $1 in January when biden is sworn in. The reason it isnt $1 yet is because some people are buying the other side of the market for whatever reason. It seems like an obvious bet really, so the strategy is to pool everyones money, take the bet, and then after the market resolves pay back the winnings to the pool.

This particular strategy is just a bet. but other strategies would involve borrowing assets and lending them out to gain interest like you mention. You could say "i can do that myself, what is gained by pooling" and there are two things: 1 you dont have to manage this, the strategy keeper manages their strategy and takes a small fee to do so, and 2 you would be in competition with the pool, less lenders means higher rates so it makes sense to pool the lending.

They get increasingly complex involving taking insurance, lending, borrowing, producing tokens, burning tokens, etc. all from other decentralised protocols, it all gets stitched together across platforms. Money lego is a phrase often used, but really its more like `npm install insurance`

Ah sorry about the link, didnt realise (btw you dont need a yearn account, there is no accounts on these platforms, but you probably do need a web3 wallet like metamask. you have a wallet and that is your account across all platforms, so you hold your user data with you, and can have as many identities as you like for each platform).

Another link to read more on yearn specifically is Andre's blog (creator and one of the lead devs) https://andrecronje.medium.com/ it is one of the interesting projects as it is growing organically, with a mix of public and anon devs, with no specific management, and no VC investment behind it (like some other defi projects), just people coming together an building interlinking code as public goods.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the tangent but isn't litecoin and dogecoin one and the same now? Why separate clients?

Nope one was started as a joke and the other one, the founder sold literally his entire holdings at the top of the market for $600/LTC, 8x current price (and ran away to an island somewhere, I assume) years ago, leaving the foundation on the brink of bankruptcy - the bankruptcy claim which to be fair they denied in 2019. Smart man!

Not sure where you get your facts, but Litecoin all-time-high was around $360. The founder, Charlie Lee, stayed and is still a visible and active advocate for litecoin to this day.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#610

I am incredibly happy about this. It's the first step for a major cryptocurrency towards ledger security that does not damage the environment via mining. I always hated how wasteful and energy-inefficient mining is. Staking reduces energy costs by many, many orders of magnitude. With lightweight clients in development, it is possible to validate chain using Raspberry Pi. I hope (but don't expect) that some time in th…

We can just use renewable energy sources long term. Really don't understand the obsession some people have with the energy requirements of bitcoin mining - please compare these with the energy requirements of the financial systems it replaces. Bitcoin solves the need for third parties in the financial system. That's it, it's not meant to be some eco currency - never was. Where's the validation that the current financ…

> please compare these with the energy requirements of the financial systems it replaces.

I don't have numbers (I suspect it's impossible to do a true apples-to-apples comparison), but I feel like Bitcoin still likely fails by this metric. I recall reading a year or so ago that Bitcoin was using the same amount of electricity as a small developer nation. I expect the other financial systems use more than that in total, but consider that these other financial systems handle orders of magnitude more transaction volume, and include a lot more services than Bitcoin does.

> We can just use renewable energy sources long term.

Renewables aren't free. It costs time, effort, and energy to build the infrastructure (solar panels, windmills, etc.), not to mention caustic chemicals for some of these, which do have negative environmental effects. Maintenance has costs, as does eventual replacement. The land required to house these production farms also is not free.

Yes, the energy produced by renewables is obviously much much cleaner than that produced by other means, but they still have costs.

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