Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#601

Post by throw900 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #556

I find it so interesting that Apple removes an app to track police from Hong Kong, when there are any number of apps that allow people to track police, fire, ambulances, etc... still available in the American app store.

A related question: would Apple allow apps that track local law enforcement if there were active protests + direct interactions with police.

As an example, imagine if there was an app allowing people to track police movements during Occupy Wall Street and a single NYPD officer so much as twisted his ankle. My guess (as a New Yorker) is that an app like that would get pulled immediately.

Obviously this isn't to say it's the right move to remove the app, just that things wouldn't be so different here in America.

But perhaps the protests in HK are so different in scale that the comparison falls flat.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#602

Post by rayiner » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

This is an app protestors use to protect themselves from police. There is no legitimate business reason to remove this app, except for making it easier for police to hurt protestors. That makes Apple complicit in any harm that results. (You can sell guns or poisonous chemicals that have legitimate uses, but you can’t sell them to someone you know will use them to commit crimes.)

Imagine if we had apps during the Holocaust, and Apple removed an app being used by Jewish hideaways to communicate. We’re dangerously close to that.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#603

Post by eli » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #324

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

>And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. Make the app a Web App and visit it in Safari. Apple has banned it being notarized and distributed from their App Store but iPhones still have access to the conventional web which Apple has no control over.

If China asked forcefully enough, think they'd start blacklisting sites in Safari?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#604

Post by newnewpdro » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #565

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been (I suspect purposefully!) dragging their feet on progressive web app support. There list of limitations is long, but most critically for this app (I would imagine), they can't send notifications and they can't work offline.

> Apple has been (I suspect purposefully!) dragging their feet on progressive web app support. The original point was that apparently there are no "work arounds" not mentioning that it could be done via WebApp seems a little disingenous.

The statement is referring to the user, there is no practical "work around" for getting their previously functioning, natively executing application operational again, on a computer they supposedly own.

Pointing out a "work around" for the developer is meaningless, in terms of "hey! they can reimplement it as a web app to bypass Apple's shitty walled garden!" is completely useless to these folks in HongKong right now.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#605

Post by newnewpdro » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

techntoke wrote: post #445

s_dev wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. Make the app a Web App and visit it in Safari. Apple has banned it being notarized and distributed from their App Store but iPhones still have access to the conventional web which Apple has no control over.

Or just switch to Android and you can install the APK, and likely unlock your bootloader and install a custom ROM.

Yeah, because you can just install Android on the iPhone you already possess.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#606

Post by sounds » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #436

sho wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on I was trying to illustrate a feeling, not make a watertight legal argument. If you want to talk about precedent - how about polygamy in Utah? There was a long precedent of that. Substitute that if you like. I was trying to convey a feeling.

Utahns agreed to give up polygamy in order to join the Union. It's almost the opposite of the current situation in Hong Kong.

As a Mormon I still think this might be a reasonable case to use for the basis of comparison. (Alas I don't speak for any other Mormons, who will probably disagree with me.)

User 'sho' wants to present Hong Kong's efforts to preserve their rights in a way that the USA would understand.

When Utah wanted to become a state, they obviously would have liked to preserve their polygamy practice. It took a long time before things settled down and Utah became a state.

In a sense, that's where Hong Kong is right now. "One country, two systems." They aren't a fully-integrated part of the country, though I don't want to delegitimize them by calling them a "territory," maybe the comparison isn't so bad.

There's pressure from the mainland to conform. Just like there was lots of pressure put on Utah to conform.

It seems like a decent comparison.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#607

Post by jchook » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

The Chinese government sure has given the Hong Kong protesters a lot of free press (no pun intended)

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#608

Post by throwaway1997 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #264

What's weird is that if you google: "Hong Kong" "Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau" -apple You come up with surprisingly little. Basically two stories. One about preventing scams in Hong Kong, and one about fake checks. I was expecting tens of thousands of results. Is there a more common name that's used in English for this entity? I'd like to research more about who they are other than the generality of a wi…

They mostly deal with investigating the crime of "Accessing a Computer with Dishonest Intent" which is a catch all law which can apply to completely non-computer related crimes.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#609

Post by mehhh » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #575

mehhh wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China forces the Uighurs and anyone who visits their region (Xinjiang) to install malware on their Android: https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/294389-china-is-installin... Banning sideloading forced China to use iOS exploits, which are ephemeral and not consistently effective. Installing apps outside a repository (like on most Linux distros) is a dual edged sword, Apple and Google are poor stewards of their software…

> Banning sideloading forced China to use iOS exploits, which are ephemeral and not consistently effective. But that's just it, China found their own way in! I don't think it's obvious which method is less effective. iPhones were compromised until reboot, and became reinfected as soon as the user next visited the malicious website—which a government can compel people to do frequently. That's still better than Android…

There is a huge practical difference between being temporarily infected and permanently having malware embedded in your phone.

The former is fixable with a software uodate from a company that actively looks to secure your phone, while in the latter case the device is hopelessly compromised.

I love sideloading, but if I were a target of interest then iOS is the only reasonable choice.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#610

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #553

stronglikedan wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriotism. A noble trait that everyone should possess and covet.

Unclear if you’re sarcastic or not. At least in North American high schools we are taught pretty thoroughly that Nationalism was the root cause of both WW1 and WW2. I’m Canadian and while we are proud to be Canadian, Nationalism is looked at very skeptically and Nationalism for its own sake would make me think the person preaching it is uneducated.

[deleted]