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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#601

Post by ekianjo »

welly wrote: post #481
davidy123 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't easily share media between the Apple ecosystem and others. You can't access some Apple services at all from Linux. There's no way to run userscripts/WebExtensions on IOS. Your device is no longer a user-focused tool to access media, your browser is closer to being a "smart tv" than a customize-able information explorer and augmenter essentially controlled by no one. You're giving up an awful lot for the sak…

> I also don't get what's missing from a modern Linux desktop A user interface that isn't ugly and laggy.

You know not everyone actually likes the Apple desktop experience either.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#602

Post by angelsl »

therealmarv wrote: post #600
blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing... I would even say it's very good that Windows and Mac don't need a whole Kernel recompilation for devices... just because Linux has this design for their hardware stack does not make it a good choice. Ever wanted to get custom hardware drivers working in Linux... it's insane and complicated you need to recompile…

You don't.

Use a kernel module.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#603

Post by meddlepal »

tjr225 wrote: post #590
bb88 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

2 - docker works flawlessly on macos 4 - i cant think of a single application, outside of maybe xcode, a developer might need to sign into the app store for 6 - whatever reasons that youtuber might have for not using macbooks, i will never buy a non-mac notebook ever again. this 2013 13" mbp has been the best and most reliable computer I have ever had in 30 years and I bought it used! 7 - sure the apple brand is cool…

> docker works flawlessly on macos

He said nothing about "fine". Docker on Mac is through a VM and thus not native. Containerization in MacOS is impossible without a VM.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#604

Post by metafunctor »

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

I, too, used to love tinkering with Linux. I would compile my own kernels, hack drivers and fix bugs to make it run better on the hardware I chose to buy. I wanted everything to be just so.

Then, I realized that I have more money than time. I can choose Apple hardware, and run OS X (now macOS), trouble free. The only time I patched my Linux kernel was when some piece of hardware didn't work. Now, I simply choose hardware that works with my mac. It's not that much more expensive, usually.

On the software side, my old workflow with terminals, SSH, and browsers is pretty much unchanged. The only thing I really liked but Apple dropped (and I hate them for it) was virtual desktops. For that, I use TotalSpaces2.

That said, I think you can still get a Dell XPS with Linux preinstalled, no?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#605

Post by mr_toad »

linkmotif wrote: post #434
mark_l_watson wrote: post #229

This might just be a bargaining move on Apple’s part, but I don’t think so. I think that long term they are much better off controlling their entire hardware stack. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see them make their own display screens. As an Apple customer, I like this idea also. For 20 years, I used to be a desktop Linux fanatic and later became a fan of Android. In the last few years, I have switched to using all…

There was a post on here recently that said Apple was interesting in making their own displays.

Maybe they’ll make a TV that doesn’t sell information on everything you watch and say to all and sundry.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#606

Post by justinclift »

obmelvin wrote: post #532
bb88 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only complaint is that if the mac were truly a developer-centric device, I wouldn't need homebrew to install software. It should just be in the apple store for me to download.

I could see an argument that Apple should make a tool like Homebrew themselves or official support Homebrew development (maybe they do, haven't looked), but including it in the app store would just be confusing. Plus, I can type 'brew install ' far faster than I could type into the search bar and make the necessary clicks to install.

> ... or official support Homebrew development ...

From memory of speaking with an ex senior-Apple-dev-person, Apple doesn't support any 3rd party Open Source projects nor Communities. eg Homebrew, or even the software they bundle in their OS

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#607

Post by princekolt »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #591

As a Mac user since 2004 for my daily driver and professional software engineering as well as light gaming and recreation... I really hope not. Being able to run Windows and Linux easily in both VMs and on metal are much too important to me. Of course, I am already not buying another Mac until they give me a keyboard with a physical ESC and F-keys so maybe it doesn’t matter at this point.

The current MacBook Pro is what caused Apple's revised compromise on the Pro PC line. So I think there's still hope. Otherwise I too will be patching up rMBP models like the one I have (probably second-hand ones though) until they run out.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#608

Post by fooker »

bb88 wrote: post #562
ionforce wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of your workflow do you think are uniquely enhanced by not being on Mac?

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

>On linux it's always ctrl.

Unless you want to copy from the terminal, where it is ctrl + shift + C.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#609

Post by therealmarv »

angelsl wrote: post #602
therealmarv wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing... I would even say it's very good that Windows and Mac don't need a whole Kernel recompilation for devices... just because Linux has this design for their hardware stack does not make it a good choice. Ever wanted to get custom hardware drivers working in Linux... it's insane and complicated you need to recompile…

You don't. Use a kernel module.

That does not always work. Especially when you want to replace some existing drivers. I know...

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#610

Post by megy »

apetrovic wrote: post #340
Lramseyer wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remember back to the mid 2000's when Apple switched from PowerPC to (Intel) x86, the higher end machines still ran with PowerPC chips in them while the mid-low end products had x86 chips. All of the old applications that weren't yet ported to x86 had to use "Rosetta." It wasn't until a little while later, presumably once most of the professional software companies had good working x86 versions of their softwar…

There's two problems with that story: first, the famous switch from PowerPC to Intel happened when the desktop was the king, and app developers had strong incentive to recompile programs to the new platform. Right now? Not so much. Second, while Apple's mobile processors are currently the best in ARM world, for "pro" desktop computers Apple needs desktop-grade processor. Making something comparable to i7 isn't such a…

>Second, while Apple's mobile processors are currently the best in ARM world, for "pro" desktop computers Apple needs desktop-grade processor. Making something comparable to i7 isn't such an easy and cheap job.

Good point, I guess Apple never though of that.

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