Ask HN: A coding test or working for free? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#61

Post by estefan » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

hdra wrote: post #57

estefan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously anyone really good won't actually do the tests because they'll be offered a job by somewhere that doesn't do them before they get around to yours though, sooo... Personally I find the single best question is "what's your github username?". People who are on it and active are... well, actually I've only ever had one candidate who's actually been on github and she seemed OK. The majority of people I've seen h…

I'm curious, how does companies usually evaluate a github profile? and how important is that evaluation to the decision? I ask this because I find many of the software engineers I follow on Twitter who work at major tech companies (github, twitter, google, etc) have a pretty sparse github profile.

I started asking it really so I could see examples of a candidate's code. Also seeing the projects they've contributed to would show that, for example, they genuinely were interested/engaged with whatever niche they were being interviewing for.

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#62

Post by roneesh » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

It sounds like a miscommunication between you two, nothing more than that.

I would view this as a blessing though. For me, interviews are a chance to evaluate how well we can communicate. If I can't be relaxed, make jokes and just feel free to talk, then I won't feel that way working for you during the next year, and that to me, is a no go.

I'd say indirectly you dodged a bullet, sounds like you two might be a high risk for constant miscommunication.

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#63

Post by ygra » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #54

ygra wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you missed the part about paying normal rates for the person during that week? If I'm looking for a job so desperately that I'd be financially devastated by a lost week, then I'd surely jump at a paid week of work, no?

You're not considering the situation where the candidate has a job already but is looking for a new one. Quitting your current job is a large commitment, and doing so for only a week trial period (where the odds are higher you'll be unemployed afterwords) is a pretty large risk. That being said, for someone who is currently unemployed, putting job interviews on hold for a week is less of a risk

Ah, indeed, I did not think of that. There'd be vacation days to avoid having to quit your current job for that week. Still, there's other problems, like maybe the contract forbidding you to have other jobs unless cleared by your employer, and taxes because you suddenly have two jobs – not worth the hassle for a single week, I guess.

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#64

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #54

ygra wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you missed the part about paying normal rates for the person during that week? If I'm looking for a job so desperately that I'd be financially devastated by a lost week, then I'd surely jump at a paid week of work, no?

You're not considering the situation where the candidate has a job already but is looking for a new one. Quitting your current job is a large commitment, and doing so for only a week trial period (where the odds are higher you'll be unemployed afterwords) is a pretty large risk. That being said, for someone who is currently unemployed, putting job interviews on hold for a week is less of a risk

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#65

Post by xsace » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:25 PM UTC

juandopazo wrote: post #38

hndl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand. Care to elaborate? Pointers?

In my country the potential employee would have to be registered as an independent contractor before being able to charge for the provided service. And then if he wanted to become a full time employee he'd have to unregister as a contractor.

Yes. In some countries, laws are strongly in favor of employee protection (for a good reason).

That's the case here. One employer could severely abuse paying candidates for some quick job without any contract being even mentioned between the 2.

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#66

Post by giaour » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:26 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #44

davimack wrote: post #29

After having been asked this several times, I've begun to make it clear that I will only engage in these tests if I'm compensated for the time. It's a delicate thing to do, really, telling someone that, no, you're not going to work for free, just on the hope that you might get a job. But it doesn't only happen in this industry: my niece is a graphic designer & has been asked to provide samples of her work on projects…

Hm.. how about some kind of three-way cooperation, where you get non-profits and charities to give specifications for work they need done, which can then be used for interview samples for actual industry jobs. The candidate can demonstrate their work and be assured that neither does the company extort free labour from them nor is the work they do for the bin, whereas the companies can see how they behave in real-worl…

That sounds amazing. I would love to contribute to such a project (or be interviewed using one).

(Actually, would you mind if I stole this idea?)

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#67

Post by Frondo » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

cryoshon wrote: post #47

davimack wrote: post #29

After having been asked this several times, I've begun to make it clear that I will only engage in these tests if I'm compensated for the time. It's a delicate thing to do, really, telling someone that, no, you're not going to work for free, just on the hope that you might get a job. But it doesn't only happen in this industry: my niece is a graphic designer & has been asked to provide samples of her work on projects…

Tell numbers 1-3 to Google and you'll find the door. Principles and self respect have real costs. The milieu right now is a race to the bottom, and refusing to be a part of it might get you left behind. This is further evidence of the need for unions to make a comeback.

But wait...you're saying...if I don't race to the bottom, I might not end up there along with everyone else? :)

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#68

Post by giaour » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

sidarok wrote: post #17

It has to be a throw-away scenario and a throw-away code. Anything else is wildly unethical.

I think this is why problems that feature singly-linked lists are so popular: you can tell from the start that the problem is limited in scope and has nothing to do with any system currently in production.

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#69

Post by jharger » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

estefan wrote: post #59

cldellow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll definitely consider a GitHub account as well, but we don't want to exclude the universe of programmers who are Just Busy Doing Their Dayjob And Having a Life and don't have time to maintain a ton of open source forks.

Yeah there are definitely degrees of "active", but even one or two forks, or even submitting an issue to an active project demonstrate engagement that says a lot about someone.

But is the opposite true? If someone hasn't contributed to an open source project, does that say a lot about them?

Re: Ask HN: A coding test or working for free?

#70

Post by burger_moon » Wed, May 27, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

cldellow wrote: post #27

That smells a bit fishy. I think you've dodged a bullet. I have to be a bit cautious here, because our company does something similar. We have a little programming challenge that we ask candidates to submit. We don't use those submissions in production. We find it gives people with non-traditional backgrounds a chance to show their chops, and gives us some meat to discuss during an interview. The challenge probably t…

"The challenge probably takes 4-8 hours, though."

The problem with that is you aren't the only one doing this and when I am job searching I am applying to many companies. So now I have 10 different companies asking for an 8 hour code test to be completed within a couple business days. Meanwhile I still have a job to hold down. It's a massive time commitment to make to just one company without knowing if the work put in will result in an offer.

I much rather prefer companies that aren't lazy interviewing and will look over some of my github repos and discuss those with me to gauge my experience. There is no one size fits all answer to interviewing, but 4-8 hour code tests(plus interviews) just isn't one I can get on board with.