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China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

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Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#61

Post by adventured »

wsxcde wrote: post #44
guard-of-terra wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you should probably do same things that successful countries do. Ones that did not have devastating civic unrest. From Australia to Austria. What do they do? What's holding them afloat? Hint: it's the remnaints of democracy and civil society, not special services looking for destabilizing factors day and night. Special services don't hurt, but everyone relying on just them had bitter end. Treating your citizens…

To offer a cynical perspective from a formerly colonized country, it seems to me that what made Australia, the UK, the US, Canada etc. successful is blatant disregard for human rights and equality when they were going through the same phase that China is going through now. To take the US as an example, the Europeans just came to North America, pretty much killed or made life miserable for the native americans, stole…

When it comes to the environment, you're accusing based on things that were not well understood in 1870-1910 when the US went through its industrial revolution.

The health effect correlation with specific chemicals was extremely poorly understood when the US went through its industrial revolution. The progress of chemical and biological sciences were still in the first inning.

The understanding of how certain chemicals can pollute or destroy the environment, and specifically what that means for long-term health, were hardly understood at all. I would argue 1% of what is known today about the environment, was known in 1900. One need not look any further than the medical therapies that were being attempted in the late 1800s to understand how backwards and ignorant the various scientific fields were.

The same cannot be said of the last 30 years when it comes to China. Their behavior is one of destruction with near complete disregard for the vast information that we now have.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#62

Post by Zarkonnen »

The Solution (Bertolt Brecht)

After the uprising of the 17th of June

The Secretary of the Writers' Union

Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee

Stating that the people

Had forfeited the confidence of the government

And could win it back only

By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier

In that case for the government

To dissolve the people

And elect another?

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#63

Post by guard-of-terra »

tinfoilman wrote: post #59
guard-of-terra wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"working class" I actually doubt you need much working class in the society capable of large-scale gene editing. Working class is only profitable when produced by pre-industrial society on its own ("village").

Valid point lets go with instead Alpha (“the upper class”) Beta (“the second upper class”) Gamma (“the middle class”) Delta (“the second lower class”) Epsilon (“the lower class”) Double-Plus (“the superior subdivision among Alphas”) Plus (“the superior subdivision among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas, but inferior to Double-Plus”) Minus (“the inferior subdivision among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas”) savage (“a pe…

Gamma is not "the middle class", it's "blue collar".

You don't really need deltas and epsilons in the long run. Unless they are very cheap to have, robots are going to replace them.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#64

Post by oblio »

wsxcde wrote: post #44
guard-of-terra wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you should probably do same things that successful countries do. Ones that did not have devastating civic unrest. From Australia to Austria. What do they do? What's holding them afloat? Hint: it's the remnaints of democracy and civil society, not special services looking for destabilizing factors day and night. Special services don't hurt, but everyone relying on just them had bitter end. Treating your citizens…

To offer a cynical perspective from a formerly colonized country, it seems to me that what made Australia, the UK, the US, Canada etc. successful is blatant disregard for human rights and equality when they were going through the same phase that China is going through now. To take the US as an example, the Europeans just came to North America, pretty much killed or made life miserable for the native americans, stole…

This is startlingly true. For example most of Africa or the Middle East is going through very blood struggles that the western world only got through 70 years ago. Some places are at the French Revolution stage, others at the Glorious Revolution stage, others still stuck in a Weimar Republic or even Nazi regime phase.

Prosperity seems to be a prerequisite for solid democracy. And unfortunately it does not ensure it :(

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#65

Post by juliangregorian »

onlywei wrote: post #32
thebouv wrote: post #12

What I wonder about when I read things like this: How did they get to this point? What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they first thought of this? Are they just the product of an already oppressive government and therefore see this as completely and totally fine? Or do they know that it is oppressive, but since they're already a cog in the machine, they pitch the idea up and get prai…

I've read enough articles over the years that this move on China's part is not surprising to me at all. I think the average person in China is quite fed up with the lack of morality and social compassion in the general public - due to news articles like the ones I am about to link you. Extreme lack of good samaritan behavior: http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/stories/old-chinese-woman-aba... https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

Good samaritans in China are an endangered species. They are more likely to be sued than thanked, and it's too often not worth the risk.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#67

Post by Cerium »

This is simply product recommendation software for the government instead of a corporation like Amazon. Same software; recommends people instead of products!

I also see an isolationist aspect: A citizen who spends significant time abroad would likely have a lower score and more trouble staying a part of Chinese society.

Fun read that this article reminded me of: Harmony – July 20, 2010 by Project Itoh (Author), Alexander O. Smith (Translator)

"In a world where human life is a precious global resource that must be protected at all costs, everything about a person -- choices, emotions, biochemistry, cell metabolism -- is monitored and assessed by computer systems, 24/7. A variety of complex feedback loops are in place to ensure optimum conservation of that resource, including everything from good old-fashioned peer pressure to mandatory inpatient psychiatric treatment." ( M. Garrison, Amazon Review)

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#68

Post by Cerium »

This is simply product recommendation software for the government instead of a corporation like Amazon. Same software; recommends people instead of products!

I also see an isolationist aspect: A citizen who spends significant time abroad would likely have a lower score and more trouble staying a part of Chinese society.

Fun read that this article reminded me of: Harmony – July 20, 2010 by Project Itoh (Author), Alexander O. Smith (Translator)

"In a world where human life is a precious global resource that must be protected at all costs, everything about a person -- choices, emotions, biochemistry, cell metabolism -- is monitored and assessed by computer systems, 24/7. A variety of complex feedback loops are in place to ensure optimum conservation of that resource, including everything from good old-fashioned peer pressure to mandatory inpatient psychiatric treatment." ( M. Garrison, Amazon Review)

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#70

Post by marcosdumay »

mc32 wrote: post #52
pjc50 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has long been a "face" orientated society. This is traditional to varying extents throughout the world, with (parts of!) the US probably being at the other end in terms of extreme individualism. Once you keep dossiers on people, it's natural to want better dossiers. This is just an extension and a centralization of technology that in the was is used to mould people's consumerist behaviour by rating their purcha…

You don't have to reduce people to statistics, all you need is ideology and believe in a better future brought to you through ideology. Ideology is the real bastard.

> Ideology is the real bastard.

Careful there. Liberalism, for example, is an ideology. And as far as the meaning of that word can be formalized, pragmatism fits too.

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