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China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

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Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#51

Post by mahyarm »

thebouv wrote: post #12

What I wonder about when I read things like this: How did they get to this point? What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they first thought of this? Are they just the product of an already oppressive government and therefore see this as completely and totally fine? Or do they know that it is oppressive, but since they're already a cog in the machine, they pitch the idea up and get prai…

The same banal thought process that goes behind credit ratings, and a general populace who you have general contempt for.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#52

Post by mc32 »

pjc50 wrote: post #26
thebouv wrote: post #12

What I wonder about when I read things like this: How did they get to this point? What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they first thought of this? Are they just the product of an already oppressive government and therefore see this as completely and totally fine? Or do they know that it is oppressive, but since they're already a cog in the machine, they pitch the idea up and get prai…

China has long been a "face" orientated society. This is traditional to varying extents throughout the world, with (parts of!) the US probably being at the other end in terms of extreme individualism. Once you keep dossiers on people, it's natural to want better dossiers. This is just an extension and a centralization of technology that in the was is used to mould people's consumerist behaviour by rating their purcha…

You don't have to reduce people to statistics, all you need is ideology and believe in a better future brought to you through ideology. Ideology is the real bastard.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#53

Post by jessaustin »

balabaster wrote: post #37
thebouv wrote: post #12

What I wonder about when I read things like this: How did they get to this point? What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they first thought of this? Are they just the product of an already oppressive government and therefore see this as completely and totally fine? Or do they know that it is oppressive, but since they're already a cog in the machine, they pitch the idea up and get prai…

[Playing Devil's advocate here, just to offer alternate perspectives] > How did they get to this point? Having a dictatorship as a government tends to lead down this path. > What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they first thought of this? I don't think the people who pitch these ideas are always the negative power hungry types - though with the media constantly pitching fear as they…

Hopefully Taco Bell doesn't win the franchise wars...

That was some ill-advised product placement. Maybe not as bad as Lockheed in the new Terminator movie, but still...

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#55

Post by guard-of-terra »

true_religion wrote: post #46
guard-of-terra wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still it is very hard to link credit score with citizen activity, with gradual punishment of undesirable ones. Once it would dismarry from financial reality, many banks will start to skip it, because it will become profitable.

Here's one method of implementing it. 1. Require that all banks have insurance for accounts that are unable to be FDIC insured but are under $200,000. 2. Legislate that credit scores take into account a score determined by Homeland Security, under the premise that homeland knows more about a person (e.g. do they gamble in monaco off books a lot? are they involved in a radical movement and likely to lose or give their…

Score is still "go" vs. "no go". You can only shut off so many people because parallel "grey" finance market arises.

More finesse is needed. You can try banks to offer different deals to identical (finance-wise) people based on their HS score, but they're probably sue.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#56

Post by sehugg »

Aoyagi wrote: post #3

What are the odds that something like this is already in place on global scale by some American spooks? To "fight the war on terrorism" or something. Surely it's not that difficult to do considering internet megacorps already do behaviour analysis and payment processors already keep track of what goes where, including credit scoring.

You get a discount on your insurance if you let the company monitor your vehicle and fitness tracker.

To get a job your employer might need to see your Facebook history.

It's coming, it's just going to be decentralized and (arguably) opt-in.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#57

Post by osazuwa »

This is bad. But before judging China, people need to ask themselves if the hold their own government to the same standard of criticism. As an American, I feel if the US government had similar plans and someone had leaked them on Wikileaks, there would be more conversation about the leaker's girlfriend than outrage about the plans themselves.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#58

Post by osazuwa »

sehugg wrote: post #56
Aoyagi wrote: post #3

What are the odds that something like this is already in place on global scale by some American spooks? To "fight the war on terrorism" or something. Surely it's not that difficult to do considering internet megacorps already do behaviour analysis and payment processors already keep track of what goes where, including credit scoring.

You get a discount on your insurance if you let the company monitor your vehicle and fitness tracker. To get a job your employer might need to see your Facebook history. It's coming, it's just going to be decentralized and (arguably) opt-in.

And we know now the government has already been working to build back doors into all these opt-in services. However, contrary to what you say, it is arguably not opt-in. It is becoming increasingly infeasible not to leave digital footprints. And if you make the effort, then you automatically red-flag yourself as someone who is behaving like a terrorist or meth-dealer.

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#59

Post by tinfoilman »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #28
tinfoilman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree but I see it much worse. The general public will have access to change certain genes/or be required to make these changes for the 'good' of the population. These Genes will be to make the working class less disruptive (reducing conflict by reducing genes that generate anger/or narrowing the emotional band of people to a much more narrow scope (think gene changes that have the same result as anti depr…

"working class" I actually doubt you need much working class in the society capable of large-scale gene editing. Working class is only profitable when produced by pre-industrial society on its own ("village").

Valid point

lets go with instead

Alpha (“the upper class”) Beta (“the second upper class”) Gamma (“the middle class”) Delta (“the second lower class”) Epsilon (“the lower class”) Double-Plus (“the superior subdivision among Alphas”) Plus (“the superior subdivision among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas, but inferior to Double-Plus”) Minus (“the inferior subdivision among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas”) savage (“a person outside the integrated portions of society, and therefore separate from all classes”)

Your point about a society capable of large scale gene editing would not need a working class is legit. it will be used to thin the populations out to 'manageable' numbers. Then class split based on parentage.

A perfect system and within 3-4 generations completely normal

Re: China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour

#60

Post by adventured »

osazuwa wrote: post #57

This is bad. But before judging China, people need to ask themselves if the hold their own government to the same standard of criticism. As an American, I feel if the US government had similar plans and someone had leaked them on Wikileaks, there would be more conversation about the leaker's girlfriend than outrage about the plans themselves.

I don't know a single person that doesn't have a very low, highly critical opinion of the US Government already. That includes essentially universal skepticism of Congress.

So yes, I think Americans criticize their government almost as a professional sport. Non-stop 24/7, everywhere. Even for things the government isn't responsible for.

I'd argue the only thing Americans are guilty of is too much complaining and criticizing of their government, and not enough doing to change it as a follow-through.

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