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Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

economist.com

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Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#61

Post by tricolon »

drabiega wrote: post #48
mblevin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the most insidious misperception that a wide swath of people appear to have about American education. It's not that the government spends too LITTLE money - it's because it spends too MUCH without any in the form of cheap student loans with no risk based pricing. Any 18 year old with no credit history can go and and take out over a $200k of student loans ($57,500 / year) from the government, without…

That 57k is the lifetime amount for undergrad, not the per semester amount.

CMU is, I believe, the most extreme example at $65K per year: http://www.cmu.edu/hub/tuition/1516-undergraduate.html

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#62

Post by judk »

skalawag wrote: post #45

One glaring problem with the proposal is that, even where we can expect university curricula have even treatment across universities (the hard sciences, say), university curricula simply are _not_ the same. Nor are the students who take them. Does anyone really think that courses taught at (say) regional universities and the students that get through them can be measured alongside the courses/students at top tier uni…

Large schools have many classes, room for advanced and remedial study.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#63

Post by [deleted] »

cozzyd wrote: post #24
Retric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My old University in the US charges in state students 7,000$ per year for tuition 2014-2015 it's 10,200/year out of state. Plenty of people come up with most or all of that as working students. And one of my roommates came from Europe because it was cheaper than any school in his country though this was a while ago. My little sister got into a school that charges (ED: 43.2k tuition/year 2015-2016) which she wanted to…

"Good" private schools (Harvard, Stanford, MIT etc.) charge a lot for tuition then redistribute funds so that people from less affluent backgrounds get need-based scholarships. I think this pressures other private schools to raise costs in order to seem competitive, even though they don't often have the same generous financial aid. In some cases, going to Stanford may be more affordable than going to Berkeley even if…

[deleted]

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#64

Post by Aloha »

mblevin wrote: post #36
guyzero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. U of T charges $10K USD annually for tuition, for an undergrad science degree, for a Canadian. McGill charges Quebec residents a stunning $2,000 a year for a science degree. There is no significant difference between U of T or McGill and any American university you care to name. Student costs…

This is actually the most insidious misperception that a wide swath of people appear to have about American education. It's not that the government spends too LITTLE money - it's because it spends too MUCH without any in the form of cheap student loans with no risk based pricing. Any 18 year old with no credit history can go and and take out over a $200k of student loans ($57,500 / year) from the government, without…

The biggest issue I have with our exiting system of funding higher education is the special nature of the debt. In any other credit purchase, if the service bought turn out to not be what is promised, you have recourse, you and default, file bankruptcy, or even sue. You can't do that with a college education, you're effectively buying it sight unseen with no recourse or remedy, and that debt lives on forever and ever.

If we made it so college debt was like normal debt, meaning it could be discharged in bankruptcy, the cost of a higher education would likely plummet, and come back down into the affordable range again.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#65

Post by WillEngler »

nickonline wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out. Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus,…

> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous. It wor…

My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.

Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#66

Post by WillEngler »

nickonline wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out. Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus,…

> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous. It wor…

My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.

Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#67

Post by WillEngler »

nickonline wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out. Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus,…

> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous. It wor…

My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.

Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#68

Post by WillEngler »

nickonline wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out. Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus,…

> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous. It wor…

My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.

Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.

Re: Too little is known about whether money spent on higher education is worth it

#69

Post by WillEngler »

nickonline wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs. The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out. Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus,…

> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous. It wor…

My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.

Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.

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