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Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

justice.gov

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Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#61

Post by Xylakant »

BlueAndroid wrote: post #23
KhalPanda wrote: post #2

This just seems ridiculous to me. I may well get downvoted, but it needs saying. Why do 99% of the world's governments seem completely retarded when it comes to copyright laws? How many tens of millions in legal resources were expended in bringing 'justice' here? And what does the outcome even matter? Good job, tens of millions down the drain for one year of an Estonian's time? The system would surely be better serve…

I work in Law Enforcement, so feel to disregard my opinion as biased , however, 75% of my work relates to child exploitation material, and an enormous amount of child abuse material disappeared from easy access when mega-upload went down. I used to find computers with lists and lists of megaupload urls. When that method died out a little beacon of happy shone for me. Now I understand that free movies trumps removing…

I can understand your joy. However, the valid question is not "How much of the available CP material is on X" but rather "How much of the total available material on X is CP" because I can tell you with certainty, that all of the available CP material on the internet will go away if we just turn off the internet.

"For the children" is a readily abused argument for about any collateral damage that incurs with about any attempt to filter, block or control aspects of the internet and by extension our free society. But even "for the children" must be balanced against the damage we're doing while rallying under that banner.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#62

Post by aw3c2 »

easytiger wrote: post #18
jackjeff wrote: post #9

I really dislike the extra-territorial aspect of it. From what I understand the Netherlands copyright law is more lenient than the US law. For instance downloading copyrighted material was legal until very recently. So downloading something from Megaupload was hardly a crime there... http://www.zdnet.com/article/downloading-pirate-material-fin... So you could do something which is legal, or illegal but not criminal o…

Also imprisoning people who are not a danger to society in any way shape or form is very modern American. And socially destructive.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-imprisoners-dilemma/ has this creepy chart https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/roed...

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#63

Post by Xylakant »

Fuxy wrote: post #24
Xylakant wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems to [...] make me more likely to ask to be payed in cash when doing business with companies that seem to be in the gray area of the law. Money paid in cash still needs to show up in the books of the company and your tax statement. If it doesn't, you just handed them another opportunity to make you hang - tax fraud is nothing to trifle with.

It will be on the books but maybe as something else. I don't mind paying tax but I'd rather not get arrested for something a person I do business with did. This is the chilling effect this kind of behavior by the state has. It make people less willing to share real information with the government since it could potentially get them arrested just to make an example of them. It's all about trust and this kind of behavi…

If it's on the books then it's on the books as "y did work for x" which is about as much as they need.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#64

Post by coldtea »

andrewksl wrote: post #44
blowski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could argue (though don't really agree) that Andrus Nomm was a threat in the same way as Bernie Madoff. Neither was running around shooting people or starting fires. The same could be said for elderly war criminals. There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat. Whether this in one of those situations is more arguable.

> There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat Do these situations exist only when we consider punishment a valid reason for imprisonment? Don't get me wrong; Bernie Madoff being free and enjoying life wouldn't sit right with me, but you have to wonder if locking people away as retribution really benefits tax-paying, law-abiding citizens.

>but you have to wonder if locking people away as retribution really benefits tax-paying, law-abiding citizens

Well, we should also consider if it's benefiting or humane to the people we lock away.

It's not like "tax-paying, law-abiding citizens" are more human than those that end up in jail.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#65

Post by stef25 »

maaaats wrote: post #51
draugadrotten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plea bargains. A promise of 1 year in low sec prison vs the risk of getting a life sentence in solitary. It's similar to what was done to witches in medieval times: "Confess, and we will kill you gently, or be sentenced and be burned alive."

Plea bargains is such an odd and dangerous concept. It can be misused heavily. "This petty crime has a max sentence of 10 years, if you confess we will give you 2" may trick even innocent people into confessing.

That's what lawyers are for, I hope he had a good one.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#67

Post by stef25 »

BlueAndroid wrote: post #23
KhalPanda wrote: post #2

This just seems ridiculous to me. I may well get downvoted, but it needs saying. Why do 99% of the world's governments seem completely retarded when it comes to copyright laws? How many tens of millions in legal resources were expended in bringing 'justice' here? And what does the outcome even matter? Good job, tens of millions down the drain for one year of an Estonian's time? The system would surely be better serve…

I work in Law Enforcement, so feel to disregard my opinion as biased , however, 75% of my work relates to child exploitation material, and an enormous amount of child abuse material disappeared from easy access when mega-upload went down. I used to find computers with lists and lists of megaupload urls. When that method died out a little beacon of happy shone for me. Now I understand that free movies trumps removing…

Of course you can make a much stronger case against MU for hosting child abuse material, this isn't a copyright issue.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#68

Post by blowski »

coldtea wrote: post #64
andrewksl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat Do these situations exist only when we consider punishment a valid reason for imprisonment? Don't get me wrong; Bernie Madoff being free and enjoying life wouldn't sit right with me, but you have to wonder if locking people away as retribution really benefits tax-paying, law-abiding citizens.

> but you have to wonder if locking people away as retribution really benefits tax-paying, law-abiding citizens Well, we should also consider if it's benefiting or humane to the people we lock away. It's not like "tax-paying, law-abiding citizens" are more human than those that end up in jail.

As I understood it from my very limited studies, there are five reasons for incarcerating somebody: retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, incapacitation, and restorative justice.

If somebody is judged by their peers to have broken the laws approved by their peers, then they receive the punishment deemed suitable by their peers.

As I say, my knowledge of this comes from a brief college-level history about 20 years ago, so may be outdated, naive or just completely wrong.

But I think in the case of Bernie Madoff, incarcerating him was justified to deter similar financial frauds in the future. I suspect (and judging by some of the comments on this page, it might have worked) locking up Andrus Nomm is an attempt to discourage programmers from working for firms like MegaUpload.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#69

Post by xorcist »

draugadrotten wrote: post #39
chii wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would anyone waive the hearing (presumably, where you would argue that you shouldn't be extradited)?

Plea bargains. A promise of 1 year in low sec prison vs the risk of getting a life sentence in solitary. It's similar to what was done to witches in medieval times: "Confess, and we will kill you gently, or be sentenced and be burned alive."

Are plea bargains allowed in the Dutch justice system? I know they're not in at least two neighbouring countries.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#70

Post by cm2187 »

higherpurpose wrote: post #56
maaaats wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plea bargains is such an odd and dangerous concept. It can be misused heavily. "This petty crime has a max sentence of 10 years, if you confess we will give you 2" may trick even innocent people into confessing.

That's what I don't get. If you threaten someone with 10 or 20 or 50 years in prison, then why the hell would you allow that person to only serve 2 years? If you thought about giving him that much, then clearly he must be a very dangerous person to society. I probably wouldn't want such a person to get out after only 2 years. If the prosecutors are charging such a person with 10x less than what he should be getting t…

There is an interesting asymmetry between the two parties.

To the prosecutor it is just a day job, whether the guy spends 1 or 10 years in prison won't really change anything to his holiday plans. To the defendant, he is playing with his own life. He will have to be locked in a room with thugs for many years, away from his family or any prospect of a normal life.

So both parties have a very different risk aversion in that game. So the prosecution plays with that.

Now if you inflicted a significant pain (career progression, financial penalty) on the prosecutor every time he sent someone to court that turned out to be judged innocent, then you would even this "game" and would probably end up with a more fair bargain.

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