Google broke telephony for many Nexus users • Hacker News Board

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#61

Post by glass- » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

dguaraglia wrote: post #49

glass- wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

What are you basing your statement on? Verizon and AT&T phones have been pegged at different minor versions of iOS many times. People want to believe Apple is some magic company that can do no wrong, but that ignores the extensive amount of QA (both in house and at the telcos) that happens before any release like this (as a longish time OS X user, I should know.)

When an iPhone update is released, the update becomes available worldwide for everyone. There is no delay waiting for individual carriers to approve the update, like there is with Android and Windows Phone.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#62

Post by diminoten » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

I had accidentally moved $1,000 from the wrong bank account into Google Wallet, and called customer service to try and figure out what I should do, because there wasn't going to be $1,000 in the account I had selected, but Google Wallet was giving me access to the funds already.

The CS rep that responded was a nice guy, but had no clue what to do. We started spitballing together some possible ideas, and I suggested that we just let it go and Wallet will eventually figure out that the transfer didn't go through, and deduct the money back from my Wallet account. He thought that might be a good idea, but had no further ideas beyond that.

That was Google Wallet, and that was $1,000 floating around. I can't imagine the level of customer service available to anyone who hasn't actually put money directly into the equation.

Do they actually do that thing we all saw in The Internship, where they have random engineers field support calls? Because I felt like I was talking to a random engineer.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#63

Post by diminoten » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

glass- wrote: post #47

edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

That's because Apple owns the hardware. It's not really fair to compare the two shops in this way, considering the differences between an OS, and an OS + platform.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#64

Post by davidwparker » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

halalfood wrote: post #15

iliaznk wrote: post #7

I'm on 5.0.1 with Nexus 4 and have no problems. Looks like it's not a common thing.

nexus 5 with 5.0.1 and me and my father definitely have had this problem. I switched to an iPhone because I had an upgrade and genuinely thought the phone wasn't working anymore.

Weird- I have a N5 and my wife has an N4 and neither of us had this issue.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#65

Post by dmritard96 » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

glass- wrote: post #47

edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

a bit more prudence from both apple and the carriers might have been smart to avoid antennagate, that being said, not the same as software updates.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#66

Post by glass- » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

mackey wrote: post #48

glass- wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

Except for 8.0.1 which hosed cell service for everyone. However, Apple was able to pull the update within hours and release a fix the next day.

And millions of customers stormed shops? Which is the rationale that is provided for carriers taking months to approve updates for everyone but Apple.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#67

Post by phkahler » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:34 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #16

Priority-Small An indication that Google no longer considers the phone functionality of a smart phone to be all that important? Or is the Nexus 4 considered too old already? It is a little over 2 years old, which is a relatively long time in the mobile world. I'm curious to know what the cause of this bug is.

>> An indication that Google no longer considers the phone functionality of a smartphone to be all that important?

I cringe whenever a product fails to perform perfectly at its primary function. Other stuff I'll let slide, but if it's any kind of "phone" it better make calls flawlessly.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#68

Post by glass- » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:34 PM UTC

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #55

glass- wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

Not one single thing in your comment is factually correct. In fact, both points are demonstrably the opposite of the truth. Apple is not perfect. It is very good at marketing, very good at aesthetic design, decent to good at acquiring marginally above average hardware, and ranges poor to decent at software. The most important thing Apple is good at is marketing, and your comment demonstrates why.

Can you please provide the demonstrable truth that Apple gets carrier approval for their updates (which are released simultaneously worldwide, sometimes new updates go out mere days apart, which is definitely not enough time for every carrier in the world to have tested the update to approve it.

And also links the news articles where millions of Apple customers stormed shops after updates broke their phones.

> The most important thing Apple is good at is marketing, and your comment demonstrates why.

Apple has been able to become powerful in phone market. They enough power to push the carriers around, rather than the other way round. Therefore everyone but Apple has to have their updates approved by the carrier before they get pushed out. My comment was not pro-Apple. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy in how carriers claim they have to spend months testing updates for everyone except Apple.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#69

Post by glass- » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:50 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #63

glass- wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to millions of customers storming your shops and demanding refunds And yet somehow Apple is able to push updates without carrier approval and this doesn't happen.

That's because Apple owns the hardware. It's not really fair to compare the two shops in this way, considering the differences between an OS, and an OS + platform.

Nokia also owned the hardware but Symbian updates were carrier approved. Microsoft owns the hardware but Windows Phone updates are carrier approved. BlackBerry owns the hardware but Blackberry OS updates are carrier approved.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#70

Post by drzaiusapelord » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? I imagine the "shoddy workmanship" has a lot to do with carrier specific settings and vendor specific stuff that is difficult to code for properly. A modern telecom is a shitshow of legacy junk that should be thrown out.

Granted, this is kinda happening with some carriers and google voice, but the move to LTE-only with VOIP needs to happen sooner than later. The carriers seem to be fighting this because they, then, can't sell "minutes" and other old fashioned concepts. They would become a dumb internet pipe and they fear what that means from a profit perspective.