Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades • Hacker News Board

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#61

Post by JupiterMoon » Tue, Dec 09, 2014, 9:57 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #60

JupiterMoon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually every country in the world and in particular the UN considers that as Israel controls the borders to Gaza it is still de facto occupied. This is a fact. I'm not sure what you fail to understand here? EDIT Less than a minute with google provided this. http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2012/01/27/un-we-still-con... It also turned up a load of bluster. But that doesn't change the status in international law.

You said: "everyone except the USA" considers Gaza occupied. That is not a fact; it's a statement made by you, based on what some member of the U.N. Human Rights Commission said. The UNHRC does not legislate international law, and arguably they do not interpret it very intelligently either; they spend an inordinate amount of their time focusing on Israel's supposed human rights abuses, almost to the exclusion of all…

Which countries don't follow the UN's interpretation of international law on this issue?

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#62

Post by aidos » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 12:07 PM UTC

ecommercematt wrote: post #59

bjourne wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conversation is not great because you are talking about me and guessing my motives, not about the subject. Afaik, everything from computers, cell phones, livestock, canned fruit and of course people are blockaded. Maybe that doesn't make the blockade "complete" but how would you characterize it then?

You haven't done me the courtesy of answering my direct questions, which is a shame. Nonetheless, I'll answer yours. The term blockade itself without a modifier seems like the best term for it without going into details (you modified it twice in less than accurate ways: 1) labeling it as Israel's without mention Egypt's role in it and 2) calling it complete). The restrictions on shipments of goods into and out of Gaz…

You're arguing against the loaded language used in discussing the blockade, that's fair. So let me just leave this link here [0] for anyone who wants to understand it themselves. I think we can at least all agree that it makes for a tough time for people trying to create a startup.

Regarding the anti-semitism - you really did make that connection to bjorne's comment, unfairly and dangerously, I would say. Bjorne said 'if you are not allowed to mention Israel's ___', which I took to relate to the restriction I imposed on discussion of politics. You made the leap that it was "bigoted, anti-Jewish narratives about Jewish control of speech". I see that you've technically distanced yourself from the actual accusation, but even raising it is implication enough.

I'd suggest that your comment provides a far more dangerous narrative; the one in which any criticism of a state is labelled as racist. I think that America's____(treatment of untried prisoners) is a total disgrace, that doesn't mean I'm anti-christian or anti-american. Let's leave race and religion out of it.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

ps I know I said we shouldn't talk politics, so it's hypocritical of me to get involved, but I feel it's not as big of a deal now this is off the front-page.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#63

Post by JupiterMoon » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #61

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said: "everyone except the USA" considers Gaza occupied. That is not a fact; it's a statement made by you, based on what some member of the U.N. Human Rights Commission said. The UNHRC does not legislate international law, and arguably they do not interpret it very intelligently either; they spend an inordinate amount of their time focusing on Israel's supposed human rights abuses, almost to the exclusion of all…

Which countries don't follow the UN's interpretation of international law on this issue?

The USA is the only one that doesn't agree.

Which makes what I said a fact.

We really had to break that down to bitesize pieces didn't we.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#64

Post by seivan » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:25 AM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #48

seivan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, with 200 million euro annually pumped there by Sweden alone I'd be surprised if we didn't see stuff like this. While now we can't feed Syrian refugees because the UN is out of money. Not to mention the genocide on Christian Arabs, or kidnappings for sex-slavery of over 7000 female Yezidis by Arabic and Somalian islamists largely from Europe. But hey... lets riot and collect money for Gaza.

Actually 282m SEK 2014 or about 30m € in total aid to the Palestinian territories: http://www.sida.se/English/press/current-topics-archive/2014... So you're off by a factor of 10 but it's still a lot.

Sweden donated 1.37 billion SEK 2007. That makes approx 200 million Euro. My bad for assuming it had continue to be that large, I assumed because recent recognition.

http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/sverige-okar-bistandet-...

Additional reading http://motbilder.blogspot.se/2007/12/dns-mrkliga-rkning-om-p...

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#65

Post by Smokey28 » Mon, Dec 15, 2014, 8:22 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #54

Smokey28 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is now up and running a shocking 46 weeks ahead of schedule. Don't believe everything you read.

Not sure I follow you logic here. Because something got repaired then it is OK that it was smashed in the first place? Can you clarify?

Sure thing. Your assumption that "it was smashed in the first place" is based on a news report, my assumption being that you are not a Gaza power station employee. In a case where something was fixed nearly a year ahead of the reported schedule, in one of the slowest moving industrial zones on Earth, which is more likely: A) A miraculous feat of engineering happened or B) The damage was not as widespread or destructive as initially reported, if even present at all.

My "logic" was not a value statement on whether the attack was justified - rather a suggestion that before you go posting certain events as fact, you should realize that not everything published is a definite fact.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#66

Post by imontauk » Tue, Dec 16, 2014, 10:06 AM UTC

Hi all - I'm the director of Gaza Sky Geeks. Great to see this conversation taking place. Thanks to all of you who have supported our work! A new piece was just written about us by NPR, and if you Googled "Gaza" yesterday, this was one of the top search results: http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/12/14/370139...

Our crowdfunding campaign has been extended until January 8. If you haven't already supported and told your friends about it, please do! It's at http://www.gazastarts.com.

I'll also be in the Bay Area from Dec 22 - Jan 6, and while I'll be primarily focused on friends & family, I'd be happy to set up a coffee side chat if entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley want to hear what it's like to launch startups in Gaza.

For those of you in Israel, I pass through Jerusalem frequently and Tel Aviv occasionally, and can also meet up there.

When I arrived to Gaza over a year ago, I had no idea what I'd find. What's made me so dedicated to Gaza Sky Geeks is the untapped potential I see. As we nurture startups in Gaza, one of our goals is to develop expertise in launching startups in frontier markets more broadly. Do reach out to us at info@gazaskygeeks.com if you'd like to engage with our work.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#67

Post by ecommercematt » Wed, Dec 17, 2014, 4:01 AM UTC

aidos wrote: post #62

ecommercematt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't done me the courtesy of answering my direct questions, which is a shame. Nonetheless, I'll answer yours. The term blockade itself without a modifier seems like the best term for it without going into details (you modified it twice in less than accurate ways: 1) labeling it as Israel's without mention Egypt's role in it and 2) calling it complete). The restrictions on shipments of goods into and out of Gaz…

You're arguing against the loaded language used in discussing the blockade, that's fair. So let me just leave this link here [0] for anyone who wants to understand it themselves. I think we can at least all agree that it makes for a tough time for people trying to create a startup. Regarding the anti-semitism - you really did make that connection to bjorne's comment, unfairly and dangerously, I would say. Bjorne said…

I didn't say that he was coming from a place of bigotry, in fact I said that he almost certainly wasn't. This isn't a technicality, it is explicit in the text of my comment. What I did was ask a question, which he never answered and I'll now ask you: can you understand why to some people particularly sensitive to anti-Jewish prejudice, this would make them a little bit uneasy? Please don't project a narrative we both disagree with onto me and the question and do me the courtesy of simply answering it.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#68

Post by bjourne » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 8:32 AM UTC

seivan wrote: post #64

bjourne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually 282m SEK 2014 or about 30m € in total aid to the Palestinian territories: http://www.sida.se/English/press/current-topics-archive/2014... So you're off by a factor of 10 but it's still a lot.

Sweden donated 1.37 billion SEK 2007. That makes approx 200 million Euro. My bad for assuming it had continue to be that large, I assumed because recent recognition. http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/sverige-okar-bistandet-... Additional reading http://motbilder.blogspot.se/2007/12/dns-mrkliga-rkning-om-p...

That's for the whole of Palestine while you implied it was all for Gaza. 1.37 billion SEK = 143 million EUR which you can check for yourself in two seconds using the google query "1.37 billion SEK in EUR" so there is no excuse for giving a wrong number. This for the period 2007-2008 so two years not one. I think it's classified as "emergency relief" (there was a war going on), the running year-to-year aid is much lower.