Live data from Hacker News

The Open-Office Trap

newyorker.com

61–70 of 194 posts

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#61

Most people in our large open plan office now wear large noise cancelling headphones in an attempt to drown out the gossip by the coffee machine, the colleague behind making a phone call with details far too personal to be sharing/scaring with us, the drone of many printers and photocopiers, inane ringtones, someone laughing far too loudly, and the person who eats with their mouth open and smacks their lips. But othe…

> the colleague behind making a phone call with details far too personal

I work in cubicle, and once I put the standing shelf desk in at home I'll be working from home more because of this same thing.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#62
post #17

Everyone seems to hate open offices, but since it's all I've ever known, what's the alternative? Everyone get a 4-walled office?

High-walled cubicles is a common compromise

I truly don't understand some peoples hatred of cubicles. Sure I'd rather my own office with a door (I guess), but high-wall cubicles provide just enough privacy for me to keep outside distractions from being a problem (unless a cube-mate starts whistling or something).

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#63
I think one of the reasons you are seeing open offices as cost savings measures is because a lot of the companies considering it have absolutely no clue how to quantify the productivity of the people inhabiting the space. This is inherently a far worse problem.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#65
post #55
post #30

The regular classroom, not the 'open classroom', is the analogue of the open office - a group of people with a common task, unseparated by walls. A private tutor would be the educational equivalent of a private office. Additionally, 'open-office' to me means OpenOffice, and while I can accept that it doesn't to everyone, be consistent . It's one of the rules of good journalism. The hyphen in the heading is not used i…

With all due respect, the open office educational analogy is the cafeteria study hall, with everyone walking around and gossiping and goofing off and basically getting nothing productive done other than putting on a show. If the open office full of distractions is the ideal working environment, then when I get an emergency call from work, I assume I'll fix the emergency faster if I take my laptop to the neighborhood…

Your open office experiences and mine are massively different. I guess that's why two reasonable people can have different opinions on the subject.

I would go nuts if people were gossiping and being as chaotic as a daycare... Luckily I've never run into that. Actually the worst gossip-y company I ever worked at was a closed office/tall cubicle company.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#66
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

Do you have a team chatroom? Are you ever distracted by messages you receive in it?

For me the two are very similar. I work in an open plan office and enjoy being able to talk to my co-workers - often someone will pull their chair up to someone else's to pair program for a while, or just discuss the issue they're having.

If you don't want interruptions, you put headphones on. It works well.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#67
I have primarily worked in open plan offices and even though a few studies have indicated that they are worse than closed office spaces, honestly sometimes some environments thrive with open planned spaces, others do not.

I am currently in my mid twenties and most people in my age bracket have not really experienced a non open plan office space, it is all they have ever known. I have worked at a couple of corporate companies that were not open plan and I noticed a few things.

People in non open plan offices tend to be more antisocial, this is more of an observation than a proven fact. I worked for a media company and instead of getting up and talking to a colleague in the office, people would just use Skype even if the person was a 10 second walk away. Teams tend to stick to themselves, people only associate with their own teams because non open plan offices do not encourage collaboration or a social aspect.

Having said that, I do find at times open plan offices can be distracting. One place I worked at had plush toys you could grab and put on your desk. If someone had a plush toy sitting on their desk, you knew not to disturb them. They didn't always work though, people who felt as though they had an emergency that required your attention would still annoy you.

Not only that, but the same place also had a quiet space you could go work in, considering everyone had laptops, this was possible. We had beanbags, a dim lit part of the room with gentle lighting so the screens weren't harsh on your eyes and all completely separate and somewhat soundproof from the hustle and bustle of the open office area.

Don't get me started on what happens when someone new starts and people try and find space, I call it the "open office shuffle" you are made to move along to make space for a new colleague, I am not saying that non open offices don't have the same problem, but it is more distracting in an open office environment.

I think regardless of what kind of office setup you have, there are always going to be issues. Most people have only ever known one or the other. If you are used to your space, I can see how an open office could be a problem for you at first, but if you have only ever really experienced open offices, then you are probably aware and desensitised to all of the intricacies and issues with them.

My favourite aspect of an open space as a developer is I feel like I am more social with my work colleagues. I get to speak with people I probably wouldn't speak with usually in a closed office environment. I can openly ask questions and have discussions in person without using Skype or Google Hangouts and when it comes to lunch, usually everyone eats together and pulls people away from their computers forcing them to go and eat, instead of at their desk.

One solution to quell the issue of open office dilemmas could be to have proper solutions in place; breakout rooms for people on a deadline who need to concentrate, company supplied noise cancelling headphones, rule of no eating at your desk (so people are not distracted by your lip smacking, chewing and smell of food), no phone calls at your desk (if you want to make a call, go to a quiet part of the building or outside) and finally if you are sick, stay home and work if you can, otherwise rest.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#68

Everyone seems to hate open offices, but since it's all I've ever known, what's the alternative? Everyone get a 4-walled office?

It depends on what you do.

Some activities like teaching are open by nature. Interruptions are ok and even desirable. Design, politics, sales, could have a great amount of work done in the open.

Now, in activities like programming, writing, science, you are suiciding yourself in the open, constant interruptions and the theater.

I have done programming in the open but choosing my partners, one, two or three people that I admired, but it was almost an intimate relationship, far from what people consider OO.

In Soviet Union it was more important what other perceived you were doing that really what you accomplished, so everybody created the farce of working a lot, but the productivity levels were terrible compared with the West. Their work was simulating they were working, and like good actors, some even believed their role.

In big buroucracies managers find very hard to identify what other people really contribute to the work so they start using external cues, like how much(time) this person works, how busy he looks, the sense of security and so on.

"what's the alternative? Everyone get a 4-walled office?"

I work from home. So do the people that work for my company.

I created my company programming, so I could identify the value of the people that work with me. I could trust them, they could manage them selves, and also they are more productive when they don't have anyone breathing over their shoulders.

Of course, it is no lala land. It takes experience, knowledge and work to be able to implement something like this.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#69
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. Commercial real estate is about $3/SF (per month) in San Francisco (Class A) and $4/SF in Manhattan. Open plan offices save about 75-100 SF per employee (more, if you're looking to be sadistic and impractical, but at this point, the productivity loss is obvious.) So the employe…

At a former job I worked from home where I had peace and quiet pretty much all day. I only really worked 4-5 hours in a day, but I was significantly (in the order-of-magnitude realm) more productive than my in-office teammates. On the occasion I'd go into the office for a few days my productivity level would similarly plummet, even though I was working for more hours each day. I can only attribute this to the incessant interruptions of the open-office plan.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#70
post #43

Well, Facebook is building the world's largest open bullpen office, with 2800 workers in 1 room(!) I wonder what they think of this research that shows open office plans being detrimental. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331658-1A... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2584738/Now-T...

They know about the research but usually say it's more important that "openness" is a "core value"

e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5768771

Post reply on HN