Earlier quoted context omitted.
There would be France and the UK. Why do you consider the UNSC as an interesting subset when comparing governmental abuses? This is a genuine question.
The UK does everything the US does and more, just without the pretense of a concern for freedom. France is a cesspool of corruption and systemic bigotry, particularly towards Islamic people. The Security Council are the most powerful countries in the most widely recognized international decision making body. I think it's a fair way to identify US "peers".
Why we're suing the CIA
61–70 of 81 posts
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Peeling off the grandstanding, hyperbolic huffing and puffing, what's left is that the law enforcement response to the nationally coordinated Occupy movement was nationally coordinated.
Not at all. Occupy was political. Individual police departments cracking down on political dissent is problematic. But when the federal government does it, federal powers make it much more significant. And when you see those folks all working with private security to suppress political dissent, it's deeply problematic. That's especially true given that the feds have a history of illegal surveillance of (and even inte…
The fact that your motivation is political does not provide a license to break the law, and you must expect a response from law enforcement if you do so.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…
Let's just go with Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark for now, with New Zealand and Singapore thrown in to prove that you don't have to be Scandinavian to have an uncorrupted government.
That Sweden?
[1]http://cjicl.org.uk/2012/06/20/assange-v-swedish-prosecution...
I assume you are ignoring the corruption detailed in
http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/media/3831417/TI-Sve...
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
There would be France and the UK. Why do you consider the UNSC as an interesting subset when comparing governmental abuses? This is a genuine question.
The UK does everything the US does and more, just without the pretense of a concern for freedom. France is a cesspool of corruption and systemic bigotry, particularly towards Islamic people. The Security Council are the most powerful countries in the most widely recognized international decision making body. I think it's a fair way to identify US "peers".
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…
Let's just go with Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark for now, with New Zealand and Singapore thrown in to prove that you don't have to be Scandinavian to have an uncorrupted government.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not at all. Occupy was political. Individual police departments cracking down on political dissent is problematic. But when the federal government does it, federal powers make it much more significant. And when you see those folks all working with private security to suppress political dissent, it's deeply problematic. That's especially true given that the feds have a history of illegal surveillance of (and even inte…
> Not at all. Occupy was political. Individual police departments cracking down on political dissent is problematic. The fact that your motivation is political does not provide a license to break the law, and you must expect a response from law enforcement if you do so.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's just go with Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark for now, with New Zealand and Singapore thrown in to prove that you don't have to be Scandinavian to have an uncorrupted government.
Sweden? The country trying to illegally force EU countries to extradite Julian Assange in clear violation of EU law?[1] That Sweden? [1] http://cjicl.org.uk/2012/06/20/assange-v-swedish-prosecution... I assume you are ignoring the corruption detailed in http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/media/3831417/TI-Sve...
The point is that we should be following our hopes rather than fleeing from our fears. Comparing yourself to the worst of your peers and patting yourself on the back because you are still somewhat better is blinding yourself to the absolutely unacceptable backsliding that has been occurring. Even comparing yourself to the best of your peers and dreaming about surpassing them is not enough. The ultimate, unattainable goal is zero corruption and perfect transparency. Effort required increases asymptotically as we approach that limit.
So it would seem that the only way to avoid having corruption in your government is to not have one at all.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden? The country trying to illegally force EU countries to extradite Julian Assange in clear violation of EU law?[1] That Sweden? [1] http://cjicl.org.uk/2012/06/20/assange-v-swedish-prosecution... I assume you are ignoring the corruption detailed in http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/media/3831417/TI-Sve...
I do not claim that those governments are not in any way corrupt. They are simply the least corrupt of an inherently corruptible tradition. The point is that we should be following our hopes rather than fleeing from our fears. Comparing yourself to the worst of your peers and patting yourself on the back because you are still somewhat better is blinding yourself to the absolutely unacceptable backsliding that has bee…
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
The second link looks particularly scary. Does anyone have a rebuttal to this?
Peeling off the grandstanding, hyperbolic huffing and puffing, what's left is that the law enforcement response to the nationally coordinated Occupy movement was nationally coordinated.
I would expect the law enforcement response to, say, an actual terrorist group to be nationally coordinated.
I would not expect the law enforcement response to semi-legal public camping to be nationally coordinated.
The fact that it was implies that there was a political motivation to the specific law enforcement actions that took place, which is something typically considered inappropriate for the American government. We like to think that in America, we have the freedom to assemble and organize with fellow citizens to coordinate social change.
These documents tell us that we do not. Should we attempt to do so, should we go outside the gameboard for any action, we will be ruthlessly, violently swatted down. The tanks[0] will roll in, the LRADs[1] will blare, and armored stormtroopers will march alongside firing tear gas and pepper spray[2].
And not only will that dismantle that movement, but it will make every subsequent movement have to overcome not just a typical barrier to adoption, but also the fear of being there when the gloves come off and the gas canisters fire. It's what's called a chilling effect[3].
[0] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/war-gear-flows-to-polic... (among many articles documenting this trend; if you want to see it in person go to any large protest in a major city, I have seen them in DC, New York, Pittsburgh, and Oakland among other places)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRAD
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not at all. Occupy was political. Individual police departments cracking down on political dissent is problematic. But when the federal government does it, federal powers make it much more significant. And when you see those folks all working with private security to suppress political dissent, it's deeply problematic. That's especially true given that the feds have a history of illegal surveillance of (and even inte…
"Cracking down" is a gross exaggeration of what the documents actually describe. Naomi Wolf's column is essentially blogspam of a press release by the "Partnership for Civil Justice Fund", which cherry-picks and sexes-up excerpts from the pretty dull documents they got through a FOIA request. It's nowhere near COINTELPRO. It's documentation of exactly the kind of mundane police work you would expect to be associated…
That is something I would expect, as the grandparent indicates, in the USSR. I don't expect it in the United States.