Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season • Hacker News Board

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#61

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 8:39 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #30

ntkachov wrote: post #7

I'm loving the direction F1 is going. Sure, for the hardcore fans, the noise just isn't the same, and the cars aren't going as fast anymore, but I love that they are trying to force the manufacturers to improve their lower spec engines. Maybe the next rule change we'll have CVT as a requirement instead of a gear box.

I'm a hardcore fan and I love the new sound. I do miss the epic V-12 screaming, but the sound of the turbo? Breath-taking.

I didn't think turbos usually made sounds. Superchargers whine, but turbos seem pretty quiet?

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#62

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 8:42 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #15

sbierwagen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about the sound? I'm tired of seeing blog comments on Jalopnik complaining about it. Of the many dumb excuses car nuts use to whine about electric cars, "they sound different!" is by far the worst.

At the end of the day sound is an inherent inefficiency. The aim is to maximise the kinetic energy output of the motor — any sound or heat energy produced is waste that could've better been produced as kinetic energy.

Not always. Did you know that in top fuel cars, the "waste" energy of the exhaust works like jet thrusters, providing up to 1000lbs of traction-boosting downforce?

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#63

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #12

johnwyles wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also keep in mind that Formula E debuts this year; it will be the sport we all eventually follow (not sure how I feel about the passing cars sounding more like aircraft than cars): http://www.fiaformulae.com/

Who cares about the sound? I'm tired of seeing blog comments on Jalopnik complaining about it. Of the many dumb excuses car nuts use to whine about electric cars, "they sound different!" is by far the worst.

When you go to a race, you can feel the thrum of the engines in your chest. It can be a part of the experience. The same way that 100mph on a motorcycle is more thrilling than 100mph in a BMW, because of the roar of the wind, the heat of the bike, and the scream of the motor.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#64

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

cc439 wrote: post #60

sliverstorm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating turbo lag is less about making a better turbo, and more about making the turbo work in concert with the engine. This is usually about picking a good size turbo that picks up smoothly with the given engine. Better turbos will make for better engines, but I would think you can never fix turbo lag with turbo improvements alone...

Mercedes has their turbo tied in to a motor/generator that smooths out the spin-up/spin-down cycle and can recover a bit of energy as a bonus. A lot of companies have tried to make electric-assisted turbos work but this is the first real-world application I know of.

Oh, I see, so it isn't actually a traditional turbo at all anymore. That does change things.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#65

Post by cl8ton » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:13 PM UTC

I have been a fan of F1 since the days of Nigel Mansell and I have got to say I am no fan of the new direction of Formula 1 present day.

To me Formula 1 represents the pinnacle of engine/chassis engineering uninhibited by any green standard of the day. For once just let the creative minds of auto engineering have their day at the track and let the best team win.

There is nothing more sexy to a car guy than hearing a V10 scream down the straights at Fuji Speedway at 21k RPM and nothing more exciting than seeing a V10 engine detonate at 21k RPM. I certainly miss the days of Schumacher and Alonso battling in the final days of the V10 engine.

Mercedes may be currently winning it by the years of preplanning for this day, but the race is already over by using today’s standard.

EDIT: In case you never heard a V10 engine http://youtu.be/MGEqlNU30Tg

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#66

Post by 001sky » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:21 PM UTC

cc439 wrote: post #60

sliverstorm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating turbo lag is less about making a better turbo, and more about making the turbo work in concert with the engine. This is usually about picking a good size turbo that picks up smoothly with the given engine. Better turbos will make for better engines, but I would think you can never fix turbo lag with turbo improvements alone...

Mercedes has their turbo tied in to a motor/generator that smooths out the spin-up/spin-down cycle and can recover a bit of energy as a bonus. A lot of companies have tried to make electric-assisted turbos work but this is the first real-world application I know of.

That is a cool feature. good use of instant torque. offsets the inertia during windup.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#67

Post by Zariel » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:35 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #11

ntkachov wrote: post #7

I'm loving the direction F1 is going. Sure, for the hardcore fans, the noise just isn't the same, and the cars aren't going as fast anymore, but I love that they are trying to force the manufacturers to improve their lower spec engines. Maybe the next rule change we'll have CVT as a requirement instead of a gear box.

As an F1 fan, it isn't the noise, and speed that are making this championship "boring". It's the fact that Mercedes is so superior that you really have to ignore them in order to enjoy the "real" racing / fights behind them. (It's true that the Hamilton-Rosberg fight in Bahrain was also fun to watch) Mercedes' dominance is ridiculous - and I don't want to take engineering credits away, but there are no fights to watc…

Barhrain today was nothing compared to the past 14 years. There are always instances of one team getting it more right than others, 88, 93, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 09, 12, 13, 14. But those years (except 09 and 88) were pretty much one sided.

This year the cars look amazing on track, the torque out of corners is great to watch, the skill of the drivers is now more important than ever. Gone are the days of Vettel sticking his foot down and hitting the apex with ease. Other teams will catch Mercedes up, the the engine unfreeze at the end of the year if not before.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#68

Post by sbarre » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:37 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #57

kalms wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but Bullitt's car chase is terribly boring. I don't get why it's so fascinating?

Maybe you're used to the modern cinematographic technique of quick cuts where one barely has time to focus on a scene. Older movies tend to use longer shots in action sequences. Besides what I already mentioned, Bullitt is cool because: 1. the setup where the guy puts on his seatbelt 2. the total lack of dialog - the driver and the gunman understand each other just by looks 3. the deadpan expression on the driver 4.…

Don't forget the car with 6 hubcaps!

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#69

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:39 PM UTC

cc439 wrote: post #59

xd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to know how they are running the shaft from the turbine to the compressor .. these things spin at something like 100,000RPM if I'm not mistaken. Normally this would be handled by a few bearings with direct oil intake at high pressure with the bearings being only a few centimeters apart if that .. but to span an entire engine is some special kind of precision engineering. edit: special because any imbalance i…

Some Garrett turbochargers can spin up to 280,000 rpm according to their site: http://garrettbyhoneywell.com/turbo-fundamentals/how-a-turbo... The motor/generator sits in the middle of the two turbines so that can help keep shaft length down but gearing 280,000 rpm down to something that wouldn't blow up the motor creates a whole new world of complexity. All I know is that this is very impressive engineering and that…

[deleted]

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#70

Post by corin_ » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:48 PM UTC

stevenwei wrote: post #32

enko wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article title might have given it away ...

Mercedes has been dominant the past two races as well so it's not necessarily a spoiler to say they have been owning the season. On the other hand today's race ended a few hours ago and I didn't expect to run into race results on HN of all places. Oh well.

To be fair to him, a thread all about which team is dominating F1 is the kind of place on HN that I would expect to see races discussed. Not sure that shouldve taken you by surprise! Anyway, sounds like the race was good enough for you to enjoy anyway.