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Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

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Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#51

Post by KC8ZKF »

atmosx wrote: post #47
FatalLogic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally used by non-scientists to refer to scientists. People don't tend to use it to refer to themselves (though a few might, in a humorously self-deprecating fashion). It might have a dismissive or mocking connotation, depending on the intention of the person using it. I guess in the worst case, its use could be described as 'othering' https://google.com/search?q=define%3A+othering

English is not my mother tongue. When I reached the word boffins I stopped and opened the OSX dictionary which gave the right perspective... Because I instantly related boffins with buffoons which has a totally different meaning and didn't make any sense to call F1 engineers buffoons ?! It's okay if it comes from Archimedes, Francis Bacon and another 10-15 fellas I guess because it's kind of relative ... But if I wer…

Hey, the same thing happens with native English speakers. I just heard a radio spot where someone was reprimanded for using the term "pussyfoot" at a meeting.

That's nothing, though, compared to this: http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1999_02_02_newy...

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#52

Post by dhughes »

jimmyrp wrote: post #44
ntkachov wrote: post #7

I'm loving the direction F1 is going. Sure, for the hardcore fans, the noise just isn't the same, and the cars aren't going as fast anymore, but I love that they are trying to force the manufacturers to improve their lower spec engines. Maybe the next rule change we'll have CVT as a requirement instead of a gear box.

A lot of the hardcore fans seem to like the noise. I'm waiting for the teams to start pushing closer to the rev limit where the engines really start to scream (I think they use around 13000 of the 15000 available). CVT's were previously used but they were banned pretty quickly.

I've only been to one F1 race in person that was 1988 in Montreal and I couldn't believe the noise, vicious! My teeth vibrated, even my bones I couldn't believe I could feel my freaking skeletal bones vibrate. Some friends and I went because the turbos were going to be banned in 1989.

I was 19 years old and the only thing I remember about the trip is 1) the noise! 2) crazy Italians 3) crazy Brazilians 4) strip club under a Burger King

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#53

Post by d0vs »

stevenwei wrote: post #32
enko wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article title might have given it away ...

Mercedes has been dominant the past two races as well so it's not necessarily a spoiler to say they have been owning the season. On the other hand today's race ended a few hours ago and I didn't expect to run into race results on HN of all places. Oh well.

Don't worry about the results, watch that awesome race!

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#54

Post by xd »

cc439 wrote: post #48

The cool part of this innovation is that it can directly benefit consumers. Trick engineering in F1 usually just tricks the regulations or the kinds of physics that only apply to racing prototypes. An example of tricking the regulations would be the double-deck and blown diffusers that were just clever interpretations of the rulebook. Tricking physics is a bit more interesting, a good example would be McLaren's F-Duc…

I'd love to know how they are running the shaft from the turbine to the compressor .. these things spin at something like 100,000RPM if I'm not mistaken. Normally this would be handled by a few bearings with direct oil intake at high pressure with the bearings being only a few centimeters apart if that .. but to span an entire engine is some special kind of precision engineering.

edit: special because any imbalance in the shaft would rip the bearings apart.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#55

Post by cc439 »

Theodores wrote: post #5

The Mercedes F1 team appears to be one team that makes cars with engines that they also supply to other teams. However it is not quite like that. The engines part of the business has been going for a long time with McLaren since the mid 90's and before that they were 'Ilmor'. Then, five years or so, Mercedes bought what was the Honda/Braun constructor team. Both the engine business and the car constructor part of the…

The interesting bit about the Ilmor relationship is that it stemmed from development of another Mercedes' branded motorsport superweapon.

Ilmor was founded by 2 Cosworth engineers who disagreed with the development direction of the DFX CART engine, they started with funding from GM to design an Chevy-branded engine for CART which went on to win 6 straight Indy 500s. Despite their immense success, the Ilmor team wanted to design a one-off engine around a loophole that allowed much more regulatory freedom if the engine used pushrods instead of overhead cams. That loophole could theoretically allow an engine to make ~200hp more than the competition butGM was winning trophies hand over fist. They declined to fund the concept so the two companies parted ways.

They still saw enormous potential in the pushrod concept and found willing partners in Roger Penske and Mercedes. Shortly thereafter the Mercedes 500l had been born, also known as Mercedosaurus Rex. It's the spiritual predecessor to this year's engine in that it was in a completely different league than its competition.

If you're interested in motorsport history and engineering you should read this: http://8w.forix.com/penske-mercedes-pc23.html

It's nearly book length but it does a great job of explaining why the 500l deserves its place in motorsports legend.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#56

Post by davej »

ntkachov wrote: post #7

I'm loving the direction F1 is going. Sure, for the hardcore fans, the noise just isn't the same, and the cars aren't going as fast anymore, but I love that they are trying to force the manufacturers to improve their lower spec engines. Maybe the next rule change we'll have CVT as a requirement instead of a gear box.

> the cars aren't going as fast anymore

Lap times are about 1% away from last year, not a huge difference. I would expect that by the end of the season, lap times will have caught up.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#57

Post by WalterBright »

kalms wrote: post #46
WalterBright wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an old muscle car with a built V8. The crackling sound of the engine start, and the sound it makes when it 'digs in' under acceleration, is viscerally thrilling. The smell of a hot engine, and the shaking of the car also add a lot of fun. One of the best movie montages ever is the opening sequence of the movie "Grand Prix" where they start the engines and warm em up. In "Rush" they ruined the movie by having a…

Sorry, but Bullitt's car chase is terribly boring. I don't get why it's so fascinating?

Maybe you're used to the modern cinematographic technique of quick cuts where one barely has time to focus on a scene. Older movies tend to use longer shots in action sequences.

Besides what I already mentioned, Bullitt is cool because:

1. the setup where the guy puts on his seatbelt

2. the total lack of dialog - the driver and the gunman understand each other just by looks

3. the deadpan expression on the driver

4. when Bullitt slides off the road, the slightest, most barely perceptible smile on the driver's face

5. McQueen's expression of complete focus and concentration

6. the 68 Mustang and Charger just totally rock. I never understand having a chase sequence with boring cars

7. the lack of CGI, models, and special effects

8. the skid marks from earlier takes

9. the amazing teleporting Green Beetle :-)

10. I love the shot of the rearview mirror when the hunter becomes the hunted - it's just classic

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#58

Post by sliverstorm »

cc439 wrote: post #48

The cool part of this innovation is that it can directly benefit consumers. Trick engineering in F1 usually just tricks the regulations or the kinds of physics that only apply to racing prototypes. An example of tricking the regulations would be the double-deck and blown diffusers that were just clever interpretations of the rulebook. Tricking physics is a bit more interesting, a good example would be McLaren's F-Duc…

Eliminating turbo lag is less about making a better turbo, and more about making the turbo work in concert with the engine. This is usually about picking a good size turbo that picks up smoothly with the given engine.

Better turbos will make for better engines, but I would think you can never fix turbo lag with turbo improvements alone...

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#59

Post by cc439 »

xd wrote: post #54
cc439 wrote: post #48

The cool part of this innovation is that it can directly benefit consumers. Trick engineering in F1 usually just tricks the regulations or the kinds of physics that only apply to racing prototypes. An example of tricking the regulations would be the double-deck and blown diffusers that were just clever interpretations of the rulebook. Tricking physics is a bit more interesting, a good example would be McLaren's F-Duc…

I'd love to know how they are running the shaft from the turbine to the compressor .. these things spin at something like 100,000RPM if I'm not mistaken. Normally this would be handled by a few bearings with direct oil intake at high pressure with the bearings being only a few centimeters apart if that .. but to span an entire engine is some special kind of precision engineering. edit: special because any imbalance i…

Some Garrett turbochargers can spin up to 280,000 rpm according to their site: http://garrettbyhoneywell.com/turbo-fundamentals/how-a-turbo...

The motor/generator sits in the middle of the two turbines so that can help keep shaft length down but gearing 280,000 rpm down to something that wouldn't blow up the motor creates a whole new world of complexity. All I know is that this is very impressive engineering and that there are tons of unique innovations needed to make it all work together.

Re: Mercedes Is Owning This Formula 1 Season

#60

Post by cc439 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #58
cc439 wrote: post #48

The cool part of this innovation is that it can directly benefit consumers. Trick engineering in F1 usually just tricks the regulations or the kinds of physics that only apply to racing prototypes. An example of tricking the regulations would be the double-deck and blown diffusers that were just clever interpretations of the rulebook. Tricking physics is a bit more interesting, a good example would be McLaren's F-Duc…

Eliminating turbo lag is less about making a better turbo, and more about making the turbo work in concert with the engine. This is usually about picking a good size turbo that picks up smoothly with the given engine. Better turbos will make for better engines, but I would think you can never fix turbo lag with turbo improvements alone...

Mercedes has their turbo tied in to a motor/generator that smooths out the spin-up/spin-down cycle and can recover a bit of energy as a bonus. A lot of companies have tried to make electric-assisted turbos work but this is the first real-world application I know of.
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