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I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

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Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#61
post #18
post #6

Are french developers really better than US ones though? We have EPITA, EPITECH, and the recent 42. But besides that I feel like the CS formation of our universities is very poor... I know a lot of people who've done/are doing CS in university, and their level is pretty low I would say. But maybe I tend to overestimate the US coders' level...

Really depends on the universities. EPITA, EPITECH, SupInfo and the likes are way overestimated and overpriced compared to some good universities.

From what I heard from an ex student about Supinfo, it is many orders worse than EPIT*. It was almost a scam (circa 2007).

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#62
post #54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope so since Epitech/Epita is bac+3 whereas a CS master is bac+5. Although I doubt many universities would still reach those schools level even after a master.

SUPINFO / EPITECH / EPITA are bac + 5, you make no sense

Oh right, I've never met any people doing a Master of CS though so I don't know the level. I was talking about bachelors.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#63
post #56
post #12

Always interested in the factors being optimized when making these decisions. I would think that for people engaging in an inherently risky endeavor such as entrepreneurship, the most important goal would be to hedge against failure. France, and the EU in general, have some of the best social safety nets in the developed world. What exactly does moving to the USA accomplish in 2014? The EU has no shortage of educated…

> I would think that for people engaging in an inherently risky endeavor such as entrepreneurship, the most important goal would be to hedge against failure. The thing is, social safety nets aren't especially relevant to that kind of risk. Those of us with the luxury of education aren't going to end up starving on the streets if our startups fail, we'll just go get jobs. The people who really need social safety nets…

> He or she would be living in one of the nice cities, surrounded by people with similar values and education, enjoying quality-of-life metrics that are significantly higher than the broader American averages.

Where would that be, though? I've lived in a few cities (Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, L.A. area, S.F. area), and even though I lived in relatively nice areas of those cities, I wouldn't say any of them are nice cities full-stop. For one thing none of the urbanized areas are actually particularly safe, unless you are very careful where you walk (and if you drive, careful where you park your car). I lived in Midtown Atlanta for years, and it certainly wasn't; you had to only take one street a few blocks in the wrong direction to go from $1m houses and $2k/mo lofts to "I wouldn't walk there alone after dark".

You can run into those issues in Europe as well, but mostly in "poorer" cities. The amount of care you have to take walking around Chicago or Atlanta, taking note of which streets and neighborhoods are safe and which aren't, feels more the kind of caution you need to exercise in Istanbul, Sofia, or Athens, rather than Copenhagen, Frankfurt, or Brussels.

In practice I find most upper-middle-class-and-wealthier Americans just don't walk anywhere, especially not after dark. That is a way of mitigating the issue, but leads to a different lifestyle. In my opinion, a lower-quality-of-life one, though many Americans genuinely seem to like the car-centric lifestyle, so that may not be others' opinion. One place America does excel is if you like suburban living. But I don't think it does cities nearly as well as it does suburbs.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#64
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well first we need everyone to speak the same language. Esperanto, here we come !

Everyone in EU already speaks English :-) Not trying to be an ass by saying that, but if you go to Europe claiming to be Canadian :-) and speaking English, you will not have a hard time pretty much anywhere, at least in Western EU.

Yes, a lot of people in europe understand English and could deal with somebody else in English. But the general level is for from being enough to make everyone comfortable with it. Technology poles are possible, but they will remain technologic, because non-tech people don't want to speak English, even if they technically can. That's why I don't think we will see much more mixing in Europe for a little while.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#65
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well first we need everyone to speak the same language. Esperanto, here we come !

Everyone in EU already speaks English :-) Not trying to be an ass by saying that, but if you go to Europe claiming to be Canadian :-) and speaking English, you will not have a hard time pretty much anywhere, at least in Western EU.

BTW people don't get pissed. It was a joke comment, trying to be an inconsiderate smart ass.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#66
post #63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would think that for people engaging in an inherently risky endeavor such as entrepreneurship, the most important goal would be to hedge against failure. The thing is, social safety nets aren't especially relevant to that kind of risk. Those of us with the luxury of education aren't going to end up starving on the streets if our startups fail, we'll just go get jobs. The people who really need social safety nets…

> He or she would be living in one of the nice cities, surrounded by people with similar values and education, enjoying quality-of-life metrics that are significantly higher than the broader American averages. Where would that be, though? I've lived in a few cities (Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, L.A. area, S.F. area), and even though I lived in relatively nice areas of those cities, I wouldn't say any of them are nice c…

> In practice I find most upper-middle-class-and-wealthier Americans just don't walk anywhere, especially not after dark.

We're actually in the midst of an urban renaissance. Being able to walk everywhere is one of the perks of being wealthy in America. Especially among people under 40. This is why there's so much angst over "gentrification": walkable neighborhoods are being rapidly bought up by the relatively wealthy. And because America is saddled with so much terrible sprawl, there are only so many walkable neighborhoods to go around -- hence skyrocketing real estate prices.

Along with gentrification comes lower crime. In fact there's no longer any overall correlation between crime and density in America. Crime in the cities (taken in aggregate) has fallen to the point where there's no longer any statistical difference between urban and suburan/rural crime rates.

Lots of people don't believe that, but that's just because they hold out-of-date beliefs, which they maintain through confirmation bias.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#67
post #66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He or she would be living in one of the nice cities, surrounded by people with similar values and education, enjoying quality-of-life metrics that are significantly higher than the broader American averages. Where would that be, though? I've lived in a few cities (Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, L.A. area, S.F. area), and even though I lived in relatively nice areas of those cities, I wouldn't say any of them are nice c…

> In practice I find most upper-middle-class-and-wealthier Americans just don't walk anywhere, especially not after dark. We're actually in the midst of an urban renaissance. Being able to walk everywhere is one of the perks of being wealthy in America. Especially among people under 40. This is why there's so much angst over "gentrification": walkable neighborhoods are being rapidly bought up by the relatively wealth…

Where are these mythical cities where you can walk everywhere, though? I've lived most of my life in the U.S. (29 years), and I still spend about 2 months a year there (I moved abroad in 2011). But few people anywhere I've lived, or where I currently visit, will walk places, especially solo after dark (especially women, it seems). And the people who do are extremely cautious, absurdly so from a Danish perspective: the idea that a young woman aged ~20 could bike home drunk at 4am on a Saturday night by herself seems reckless to Americans, but entirely normal to Danes, because Copenhagen is safe in a way that no American city is. In the U.S. in my experience, most people are very cautious late at night in urban areas. Perhaps they shouldn't be, but it's a very noticeable cultural difference.

I could be looking in the wrong places, I'll admit. I spend most of my time in the U.S. in Houston and Atlanta, where I have friends and relatives, secondarily in L.A. and S.F. Maybe those are bad choices, despite being some of the most economically booming cities in the country? I could imagine much of Manhattan is safe these days, so that's one possibility. Is there anywhere else? Houston, Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco certainly don't lend themselves to random walks at night; people tend to carefully delineate which areas they'll walk in at night, if at all. Much of NYC is still sketchy; parts of Brooklyn are safe but you have to be knowledgeable about which ones. My brother lives in the Mission in S.F., and while it is sort of safe nowadays, past midnight walking safely really depends on what street you're on, and you don't exactly just take the shortest path on Google Maps to get somewhere else in S.F., especially not if it takes you through the Tenderloin.

I mean actually safe, fwiw, not just relatively safe: as in, you will definitely not be mugged, even walking solo at night. That's to me what it means to live in a safe city. A large proportion of the people I know who walk in an American city have been mugged at least once (off the top of my head, one person in Brooklyn, one in Atlanta, one in San Francisco, three in Los Angeles, one in Houston, I lost track of how many in Chicago). Whereas if you're mugged in Copenhagen, it's so rare that you'll make the newspapers— especially if you're mugged by someone carrying a gun, which will produce front-page headlines and a multi-week police investigation trying to figure out how this person could've gotten a gun. Overall, I just feel much safer here, despite being born and raised in the U.S. and feeling more "at home" in the U.S.

If you mean that there exist small upper-class walkable neighborhoods in the U.S., sure: that's also true of Istanbul. But are there walkable cities?

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