I didn't leave France, I moved to the US • Hacker News Board

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#41

Post by gommm » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 1:51 AM UTC

mavdi wrote: post #40

Crazy or what? "... written recently about French entrepreneurs leaving France because it was a terrible place to start and grow a business but ...... if your users, partners and possible future investors are here, you have to consider having at least a foot here." And why do you think that is the case Einstein? The reason your users, partners and future investors are not in France is that France is no longer competi…

Well the size of the respective countries also has an impact... It's easier to localize once in english to target all the north american market compared to trying to localize for all the different EU countries, so targeting the US market makes sense.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#42

Post by mavdi » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:04 AM UTC

gommm wrote: post #41

mavdi wrote: post #40

Crazy or what? "... written recently about French entrepreneurs leaving France because it was a terrible place to start and grow a business but ...... if your users, partners and possible future investors are here, you have to consider having at least a foot here." And why do you think that is the case Einstein? The reason your users, partners and future investors are not in France is that France is no longer competi…

Well the size of the respective countries also has an impact... It's easier to localize once in english to target all the north american market compared to trying to localize for all the different EU countries, so targeting the US market makes sense.

I don't think in a digital market, size and language of a country matters. We see a lot of excellently successful Israeli start ups for instance. Small country, Hebrew language and different alphabet too.

The fact of the matter is, bright young French people are leaving their country behind. I see many of them in London, and most of them are very successful here. France is no longer an enterprise centre where cool things happen and innovation is celebrated. Hopefully that will one day change.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#43

Post by rtpg » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:13 AM UTC

bvrlt wrote: post #17

DangerousPie wrote: post #10

Is it actually true that "a developer in France will basically cost you half the price of a US one"? I have always been under the impression that labor was a lot more expensive in Europe (and particularly France) because of high taxes and a large amount of social/welfare contributions. This is not to say that there aren't good reasons for having these contributions or that workers in one place or the other are necess…

There are several things to take in account. Base salary for fresh out of school engineer is about 40 kEUR. You need to add 75% of social contributions, so that totals around 70 kEUR. If you are a "young innovative company" though, you can have exoneration of these social contributions and only pay ~40 kEUR for the first few years.

the average for good schools is around 35kEUR, I think. Maybe slightly more if you're in Paris.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#44

Post by wallzz » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:20 AM UTC

murbard2 wrote: post #38

I not only moved to NYC, I most definitely, very emphatically left France. That country is doomed, the culture there is viciously opposed to success and ambition.

I totally agree , as an Algerian who is studying in France , I find that there is a general feeling of frustration and gloom,that is being powered by the media, and the political parties.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#45

Post by nandreev » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:21 AM UTC

jbeja wrote: post #2

Is there any guide about how to leave your country and achive your dreams?

I compiled mini-guides for the most common destinations: http://longerpath.com (it was mostly made for my own curiosity, but I'm sure others will find it somewhat useful)

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#46

Post by wallzz » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:26 AM UTC

m0g wrote: post #39

baby wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people coming from both sides of the fence and there is a huge difference of level. I challenge you to find just one university in France that gives you a formation equivalent to those of epitech et al.

Well, I come from a CS master's of the university of Nantes and I don't feel _at all_ like I have a lower level than if I went to one of those schools. It's clearly the other way around.

CS master of Nantes is a really high level diploma comparing to some other universities , I will get mine from the same university this year (hopefully)

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#47

Post by murbard2 » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:28 AM UTC

wallzz wrote: post #44

murbard2 wrote: post #38

I not only moved to NYC, I most definitely, very emphatically left France. That country is doomed, the culture there is viciously opposed to success and ambition.

I totally agree , as an Algerian who is studying in France , I find that there is a general feeling of frustration and gloom,that is being powered by the media, and the political parties.

It's not just the gloom, there's an age old and very prominent anti-capitalistic mentality.

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#48

Post by rakoo » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:30 AM UTC

wallzz wrote: post #36

yawz wrote: post #15

It's really hard (if possible) to make such comparison. I studied and worked in France. Now I live in the US. In some respect it's not fair to compare "US" to "France" as a country. US has many technology poles and most of the time feels like a group of countries sharing the same language and currency.

We are mostly comparing EUROPE to the US , Europe also has big technology poles (Grenoble ,Berlin, Paris ...) , the problem is that big tech giants in europe work independently of each other or work with US firms!, the UE must create one single technology pole where all the firms will be implemented! Paris can't handle more than what it handles now !

Well first we need everyone to speak the same language. Esperanto, here we come !

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#49

Post by tonfa » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 2:37 AM UTC

wallzz wrote: post #33

yulaow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, 40kEUR for a fresh out of school engineer is a lot considering my zone (IT, GE, FR). Maybe in a corporation or something like that, but in startups and similars it's already a good start to have 20kEUR out of school (taxes included) If you have a stage/intership contract it can be also less then 12-15kEUR (taxes included)

I'm in an intership in France , and that's true , I get 15K EURO , that's the maximum salary for interns in France!

I never heard of a maximum compensation for internships...

Re: I didn't leave France, I moved to the US

#50

Post by workhere-io » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 3:00 AM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #10

Is it actually true that "a developer in France will basically cost you half the price of a US one"? I have always been under the impression that labor was a lot more expensive in Europe (and particularly France) because of high taxes and a large amount of social/welfare contributions. This is not to say that there aren't good reasons for having these contributions or that workers in one place or the other are necess…

There is no such thing as "Europe" when it comes to wages, laws, culture, etc. - these things vary to an extreme degree within Europe and even within the smaller subset of European countries known as the EU. http://soimovedhere.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/stop-generalizi...

Some European countries have higher wages, but that doesn't necessarily mean that employers end up paying more than they would have in Silicon Valley - partly because US employers often pay for health care / dental (not always the case in Europe), and partly because high living costs in Silicon Valley have pushed wages up.