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America knows everything

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Re: America knows everything

#61
Leftists (and rightists) need to stop being scared of the freaking world.

And that includes internal politics. Stop scare-mongering everything if some park ranger in Idaho is furlod (sic).

This whole freaking planet has become a paranoid (we trust government) freak fest.

Forget about it. It just sucks.

Why do you leftists that sympathesize with this guy vote for a socialist like Obama?

Re: America knows everything

#62
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.

You don't think its weird to be strip searched, and kept from contacting worried parties, because you decided to play a non-profit show without a visa? Law or not, I don't think that makes sense.

And how is CBP supposed to know his entire intention was just to play a couple of non-profit shows? He admits he will be compensated (tips and food) for the shows. Maybe after that he's planning on getting paid shows, or something.

As I understand the law, he could have stayed and appealed the decision. Not that they're going to tell you that or help you out - they're allowed to lie to you and so on.

Strip searching seems very excessive, as does the entire handling. But fundamentally, interrogating someone that appears to be going to violate their visa is one of the reasons for having CBP at all.

Re: America knows everything

#63
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but the events in this article are bad enough on their own, there is no need to inject a racial element into the discussion.

No, I think there is a need. If the definition of what it is to be American is warped, specifically, that it takes more than citizenship to be welcomed home, then that should come into the discussion of these cases of mistreated foreigners.

OK, but I read this as "oh that's nothing, we even mistreat our own."

I think you're effectively minimizing this man's experience with an unfounded (?? maybe just my ignorance) comment about racial profiling.

Re: America knows everything

#64
post #18
post #6

It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government. For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a…

I'd like to see a customer satisfaction survey implemented across the board. It needs to have teeth. All of these problems are the result of giving people responsibility without accountability. As it is now, the only accountability they have is whether or not something 'bad' happens. But the actual chance of something bad happening is so low that it is no more than statistical noise. So no matter what they do, they c…

It can be much more of a cultural issue than an accountability one.

Often people behave very ethically without supervision.

Re: America knows everything

#65
post #36

To play devil's advocate, he traveled to the U.S. with a guitar, had 5 shows booked in advance before his arrival, uses a pseudonym to perform and didn't declare any of this to the border officials. I think the article can also say he has a CD coming out soon. I can actually see why he was turned away. He's a musician, hoping to travel and do some shows in the U.S. for fun. You can't work in the U.S. without a work v…

According to their rules, performing for free is acceptable: "participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating" http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

Tips are suddenly not payment?

Re: America knows everything

#67
post #41

While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…

I don't understand the reason, but from what I've seen the US and Canadian rules on these things are explicitly set up to screw small musicians. Like getting a VISA to do a single gig in a bar or restaurant costing more than the venue would normally be paying the musicians: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/29/canada-foreign-worke... And I know our local (US) maritime music festival didn't bring in a Canadian duo…

Maybe they could afford the cost of the visa if all those soccer mom's would just pay the RIAA millions of dollars like they are supposed to.

Re: America knows everything

#68
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect soon enough (unless it's already a trend) Americans may be afraid to even speak of this in public as with mass surveillance you never know how and when your unfavorable words of the regime may affect you.

I suspect you don't know any Americans.

It is one of the bright spots of this: Americans are stubbornly stupid enough to be completely willing to damn the consequences.

(That is, in some respect, how we got into the social media surveillance state: brazen willingness to damn the consequences of oversharing, for quite superficial reasons.)

Re: America knows everything

#69
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.

Mexico has a similar law. Near where my parents live, they recently started enforcing it with some vigor. The problem being that foreign musicians (mostly Americans) were playing shows for "donations". Whether that was actual donations or bar owners donating was unclear, but either way it was plausible that these people were displacing musicians entitled to work. The shorter version: jackasses getting around a law ca…

I have another interpretation: bad laws are impossible to enforce in a just way. I have no idea why anyone should be required to have a special visa to work in the US. Because we are selfish?

Re: America knows everything

#70
Why can't the police / border guards just treat these humans as humans. Ok, do what you must, return them to the originating country if they break some law.

It's unfortunate when it is a cool thing for some to be "tough" like this?

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