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America knows everything

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Re: America knows everything

#21

Well I'm glad this didn't happen to me. I travelled to the US in very similar circumstances a few weeks ago: European, carrying a guitar, visiting the South, previously stayed in the US on a J-1 intern visa. The only difference being that I had a one-way ticket. I didn't even go through secondary at customs. No issues.

The fact that it's arbitrary doesn't make it any better.

Re: America knows everything

#22
post #13

This seems like a good place to leave a quick plug for the recent computer game "Papers, Please", which perfectly simulates the experience of being a clerk inspecting prospective entrants at the border of a dystopian republic and approving/denying visas. As the game progressed I found myself "just following orders", even as they got increasingly creepy, and now I think I have a much better understanding of what life…

You might find the essay, 'The Checkpoint' interesting (and thoroughly bleak). It is by an Israel Defense Force conscriptee who started working those internal checkpoints between israel proper and the occupied territories.

It is an account of how an even more extreme situation is utterly soul-destroying for the people working those jobs, no matter how good their initial intentions are.

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR37.4/oded_naaman_israeli_defen...

Re: America knows everything

#23
post #9

Even if you were born and raised in America, you're not truly American unless you're white. Until then, prepare to be accosted at immigration.

Maybe, but the events in this article are bad enough on their own, there is no need to inject a racial element into the discussion.

Re: America knows everything

#24
While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes.

In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

He stated that he was: Trying to work several unpaid shows, he would receive meals and tips as compensation at one or more shows, and then he was going to write articles for Noisey (http://noisey.vice.com/) about it.

Bringing musical instruments with you (and admitting you are a musician - even if just as a 'hobby') on a supposed tourism visit and going to one or more cities where you did not have relatives or explicit non-business reasons to be there probably immediately triggered an investigation as to why he did not have a visa / whether he required a visa for his visit.

Yes - our border control system is horrible. I totally grant that. But this person was also explicitly not playing by the work visa rules either.

Re: America knows everything

#26
post #6

It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government. For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a…

The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.

Mexico has a similar law. Near where my parents live, they recently started enforcing it with some vigor. The problem being that foreign musicians (mostly Americans) were playing shows for "donations". Whether that was actual donations or bar owners donating was unclear, but either way it was plausible that these people were displacing musicians entitled to work.

The shorter version: jackasses getting around a law cause more laws, ruining things for everybody.

Re: America knows everything

#27
Even as a U.S. citizen, every time I've traveled to other countries in the past few years, it's always jarring going from the hospitable, friendly customs people in the other countries, to the literally rude awakening of getting practically accosted by the agents in the U.S. upon returning.

Re: America knows everything

#28
post #20
post #5

Welcome to America, where we read your private mail, track all your movements online, shoot your dogs, abuse you at the borders, put antibiotics in your food, bankrupt you when you get sick, throw you in jail with hardened criminals if you smoke a spliff, and drone-execute you with no warrant if the president doesn't like you. Would you like fries with that?

I suspect soon enough (unless it's already a trend) Americans may be afraid to even speak of this in public as with mass surveillance you never know how and when your unfavorable words of the regime may affect you.

I suspect you don't know any Americans.

Re: America knows everything

#29
To play devil's advocate, he traveled to the U.S. with a guitar, had 5 shows booked in advance before his arrival, uses a pseudonym to perform and didn't declare any of this to the border officials. I think the article can also say he has a CD coming out soon. I can actually see why he was turned away. He's a musician, hoping to travel and do some shows in the U.S. for fun.

You can't work in the U.S. without a work visa. The rules are pretty clear about that.

And performing for free is still work.

Re: America knows everything

#30
post #6

It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government. For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a…

The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.

You don't think its weird to be strip searched, and kept from contacting worried parties, because you decided to play a non-profit show without a visa?

Law or not, I don't think that makes sense.

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