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Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#61

Post by DerpObvious »

dhimes wrote: post #57
Zoomla wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and privacy was the reason I voted for him.... he was supposed to repeal the PATRIOT Act... Politicians, especially the president, really need to be held accountable for breaking their promises.

Me too. And also I was pissed at Bush's (whom I also voted for) disregard and disrespect of the international community in the Iraq invasion. Which turned out to be based on incorrect intelligence after all. So I voted for Obama, and again when Romney started to sound like Bush. Sheesh. So disappointed. Honestly, I am bothered by the NSA stuff but part of my empathy goes out to him and 'allows' that perhaps he is act…

> Maybe there arose an enormous threat and he was desperate to stop it.

Even an existential threat - an actual one like another nation-state pointing world-ending numbers of nuclear weapons at our country - is less harmful than dismantling the mechanisms of the state internally.

What could even possibly justify this kind of thing?

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#62

Post by 001sky »

einhverfr wrote: post #34
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

I am not sure the President is in the loop here

NSA is the presidents game.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#63

Post by GVIrish »

Sagat wrote: post #38
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

Obama is not solely responsible for everything that goes on in the US government. The president's power is limited. However, since he is the figurehead of the state, it's only natural that citizens have the impression he is the mastermind behind every single negative action of the gubment. I'm highly disappointed with Obama but he is hardly a psychopath. All those decisions you find repellent are the result of pressu…

Obama is not solely responsible for everything that goes on in the USG, but in this case he bears enough responsibility that he can and should be held accountable.

It doesn't matter where the pressure came from to make Obama go down this road. The bottom line is that Obama chose to go down this road.

Some people are saying, "Well, maybe he wasn't in the loop." If that is the case, and Obama was mislead as to the scope and nature of what the NSA was doing, he should've come down on the NSA HARD. The fact that he got up on TV and stammered on about balancing security and privacy and "welcoming the debate" means he was not alarmed by what was revealed and he had not intention of stopping it. He has done nothing to rein this program in.

Make no mistake, Obama knew enough to know what was going on was wrong. The fact that he chose to go down the wrong path means he is responsible and he should be impeached.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#64

Post by GVIrish »

einhverfr wrote: post #34
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

Let's say the President was not in the loop, and all of this stuff was a surprise to him. Why has he not taken any decisive action to fix the problem?

He asked for the resignation of the head of the IRS after the political targeting scandal. He asked for the resignation of General McChrystal after he talked trash about Obama in a Rolling Stone article. But in this brazen assault by the NSA on the very foundations of our government Obama has barely responded at all. Director Clapper flat out lied to Congress and Obama hasn't even lifted a finger.

That to me indicates that Obama is absolutely supportive of what the NSA is doing.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#65

Post by MattyRad »

Shivetya wrote: post #50
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

Impeachment won't go anywhere, he can hide behind sycophants who would twist the whole endeavor as being racially oriented. Even now that one issue is what keeps many mouths silent, on the NSA, Syria, and other events. Go read some of the stories of some of Hollywood's best known anti-war activist are stymied by this prospect. No, the way to get the message across is to keep it alive and use in the 2014 elections to…

For what it's worth, younger generations of the Republican party are recognizing civil libertarian viewpoints more and more. With luck, it may in time become the political party it is supposed to be. But I guess that's being pretty optimistic.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#66

Post by swombat »

Sagat wrote: post #38
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

Obama is not solely responsible for everything that goes on in the US government. The president's power is limited. However, since he is the figurehead of the state, it's only natural that citizens have the impression he is the mastermind behind every single negative action of the gubment. I'm highly disappointed with Obama but he is hardly a psychopath. All those decisions you find repellent are the result of pressu…

When you're president of the US, you don't get to pass the buck. Sorry, but Obama deserves all the criticism for this.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#67

Post by philwelch »

devx wrote: post #32
wyclif wrote: post #29

Obama's presidency has been disastrous for the privacy of American citizens: “The [surveillance] Court documents declassified recently show that in late 2011 the court authorized the NSA to conduct warrantless searches of individual Americans’ communications using an authority intended to target only foreigners,” Wyden said in a statement to The Washington Post. “Our intelligence agencies need the authority to target…

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

> Not doing it would just send a message to other psychopaths running for president the next time, that it's okay to blatantly lie to the electorate, and then do stuff at least as bad as he did.

Frankly that ship has sailed. Pardoning and rehabilitating Nixon, along with never prosecuting Nixon, Kissinger, Bush, or Cheney for war crimes after they left office has made that message loud and clear.

And it's at all levels. Government is simply above the law. How many police are in prison for murdering civilians?

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#68

Post by iamjustin »

Shivetya wrote: post #50
devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

Impeachment won't go anywhere, he can hide behind sycophants who would twist the whole endeavor as being racially oriented. Even now that one issue is what keeps many mouths silent, on the NSA, Syria, and other events. Go read some of the stories of some of Hollywood's best known anti-war activist are stymied by this prospect. No, the way to get the message across is to keep it alive and use in the 2014 elections to…

>for when one party has dominance too long we get into situations like we are today.

Yeah, and right now it's the Democrat/Republican party.

You aren't going to change anything switching from Democrat>Republican or vice versa.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#69

Post by philwelch »

MattyRad wrote: post #65
Shivetya wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeachment won't go anywhere, he can hide behind sycophants who would twist the whole endeavor as being racially oriented. Even now that one issue is what keeps many mouths silent, on the NSA, Syria, and other events. Go read some of the stories of some of Hollywood's best known anti-war activist are stymied by this prospect. No, the way to get the message across is to keep it alive and use in the 2014 elections to…

For what it's worth, younger generations of the Republican party are recognizing civil libertarian viewpoints more and more. With luck, it may in time become the political party it is supposed to be. But I guess that's being pretty optimistic.

I'll need some convincing before I believe there are civil libertarians in either party. Empirically, whoever supports the same party as the President supports greater executive powers while the other party opposes them.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#70

Post by greenyoda »

iamjustin wrote: post #68
Shivetya wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeachment won't go anywhere, he can hide behind sycophants who would twist the whole endeavor as being racially oriented. Even now that one issue is what keeps many mouths silent, on the NSA, Syria, and other events. Go read some of the stories of some of Hollywood's best known anti-war activist are stymied by this prospect. No, the way to get the message across is to keep it alive and use in the 2014 elections to…

>for when one party has dominance too long we get into situations like we are today. Yeah, and right now it's the Democrat/Republican party. You aren't going to change anything switching from Democrat>Republican or vice versa.

It's not the switch from Democrats to Republicans that will make things better. It's the electorate making it clear that the penalty to politicians for violating our civil rights is that they and their party will get thrown out of office.

Unfortunately, I think that for most people, civil rights are very low on the list of issues that they care about when voting in an election. They care much more about health insurance, security of union jobs and pensions, etc. And the big corporate donors probably care about civil rights even less than the average voter.

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