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Iron Ring

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Re: Iron Ring

#61

Post by jellicle »

potatolicious wrote: post #14
yurisagalov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think that's strictly true. Although there might be a stigma associated with calling yourself an Engineer if you didn't go through an Engineering program, it is only illegal to call yourself a Professional Engineer if you're not properly licensed. Graduating from an Engineering degree (and/or receiving an Iron Ring) has no real legal protection or obligation. The licensing requirements to become a Pr…

Calling yourself a P.Eng without actually being a licensed P.Eng is very, very illegal. Calling yourself an Engineer without having graduated from a CEAB-accredited institution is also illegal, just that people don't care nearly as much as bout this. You will occasionally see job postings and titles for "software engineers" from companies that don't know about this particular legal snag, and for the most part it's no…

"Offence, use of term “professional engineer”, etc.

(2) Every person who is not a holder of a licence or a temporary licence and who,

(a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation;

(a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering;

(b) uses a term, title or description that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering; or

(c) uses a seal that will lead to the belief that the person is a professional engineer,

is guilty of an offence..."

As can be plainly seen, it is perfectly legal to call yourself a software engineer, audio engineer, sanitation engineer, or any other term which isn't holding yourself out to be a licensed professional engineer. The fine is $10,000.

Re: Iron Ring

#62

Post by Serow225 »

I got mine in 2003 for a B. Sc in Mechanical Engineering, but since I ended up going to work at a software development company, I decided not to wear it - just felt wrong. This was a personal choice, YMMV :)

Re: Iron Ring

#63

Post by Serow225 »

alex_c wrote: post #13

Random trivia: the "iron version" picture is of my own ring, uploaded a few years back when I was messing around with my friend's new camera. Pleasant surprise not only to see this on HN, but to see that the picture is still there after all this time :) As far as I know my year (2005) was one of the last years that U of T still offered an actual iron version, as opposed to stainless steel (most other schools no longe…

I think I had the choice of stainless or iron back in 2003 (U of S). They probably just had an old box of iron ones hanging around. They were pretty clear about the tradeoffs, the iron ones were traditional and symbolic, but they rusted and tended to leave orange marks on your fingers (as you might expect).

Re: Iron Ring

#64

Post by grumps »

adamgravitis wrote: post #41
efferifick wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software Engineers get them too! Sadly, Computer Science students won't get them.

This depends on the university. At UofT, for example, "software engineering" is actually taught outside of the engineering faculty, and is not CEAB approved... and therefore doesn't qualify.

Yes, at MST/UMR the Comp Sci degree isn't applicable to engineering. I don't recall if computer engineering is/was because it's taught by the EE staff and Comp Sci staff.

Even if you had an engineering degree you still didn't get the ring. I believe you had to go to some sort of ethics classes before we'd be given the opportunity to purchase the ring.

Re: Iron Ring

#65

Post by ovoxo »

npsimons wrote: post #20

Perhaps we should have a silicon ring for software engineers. And in case you are thinking "that would break too easily", well that's part of the point: to remind you that software can also be very easily broken, sometimes without even trying :)

I'm a Software Engineer in Canada and I have an iron ring but that is because our Software Engineering programs (at least the ones that I know of) are accredited engineering programs - i.e. you must go through much of the same hell as other engineers.

Re: Iron Ring

#66

Post by dblohm7 »

yurisagalov wrote: post #10
johlindenbaum wrote: post #6

Sort of relevant: In Canada the word "Engineer" is protected. While I am a Computer Scientist, I can not call myself a Software Engineer (or any form of Engineer), unlike in the US. In Canada you must have graduated from an Engineering College of a University to use the title.

I actually don't think that's strictly true. Although there might be a stigma associated with calling yourself an Engineer if you didn't go through an Engineering program, it is only illegal to call yourself a Professional Engineer if you're not properly licensed. Graduating from an Engineering degree (and/or receiving an Iron Ring) has no real legal protection or obligation. The licensing requirements to become a Pr…

The results may be "mixed," but it does happen. MCSE was renamed in Canada, thanks to the Quebec case as well as intense pressure from Professional Engineering associations across Canada.

Source: My dad has served on local APEGGA boards and holds P.Eng and FEC designations.

I think it's one of those things in Canada where nothing happens until a complaint has been filed. Having said that, even though my job title is "Platform Engineer," as somebody with a CS degree living in Canada, I avoid using it when I'm away from the web, lest it prompt somebody to complain against my employer.

Re: Iron Ring

#69

Post by potatolicious »

jellicle wrote: post #61
potatolicious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling yourself a P.Eng without actually being a licensed P.Eng is very, very illegal. Calling yourself an Engineer without having graduated from a CEAB-accredited institution is also illegal, just that people don't care nearly as much as bout this. You will occasionally see job postings and titles for "software engineers" from companies that don't know about this particular legal snag, and for the most part it's no…

"Offence, use of term “professional engineer”, etc. (2) Every person who is not a holder of a licence or a temporary licence and who, (a) uses the title “professional engineer” or “ingénieur” or an abbreviation or variation thereof as an occupational or business designation; (a.1) uses the title “engineer” or an abbreviation of that title in a manner that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the prac…

Sort of - the CEAB has in recent years expanded its definition of professional engineering into software engineering also. There are now CEAB-accredited software engineering degrees.

An audio or sanitation engineer is unlikely to run afoul of this, a software engineer is less clear... I've yet to hear of anyone going after software engineers for the term though.

Re: Iron Ring

#70

Post by potatolicious »

graeham wrote: post #42
alex_c wrote: post #13

Random trivia: the "iron version" picture is of my own ring, uploaded a few years back when I was messing around with my friend's new camera. Pleasant surprise not only to see this on HN, but to see that the picture is still there after all this time :) As far as I know my year (2005) was one of the last years that U of T still offered an actual iron version, as opposed to stainless steel (most other schools no longe…

UBC '10 here, mine is stainless and I don't recall a iron option. The ring (and ritual) is a great idea for the community and the idea behind it. I strive to include in my professional and non-professional life. It also makes for good barstool chat since fewer people have heard of it compared to say the Hippocratic Oath.

Only Camp 1 (i.e., Toronto-area) get the choice of iron. Everyone else gets stainless.
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