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George W. Bush is smarter than you

keithhennessey.com

61–70 of 82 posts

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#61

Even if this were true, pretending to be stupid with the goal of getting elected is far worse than actually being stupid.

De-emphasizing intellect is a far cry from pretending to be stupid. In fact, character matters at least as much as intelligence in real life. What use is intelligence if you don't have the character to execute when you have to do something hard? And of course, ethics provide the end goals to which intelligence is applied.

So your contention is that character and ethics are exclusive of intelligence? If not, why would one need to feign stupidity in order to project character?

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#62
post #38

Anecdotally, having been born and raised in Orange County, CA (11yr), then Arkansas (5yr) and finally Texas for High School and College (7yr), followed by Denver (liberal) and now Silicon Valley, I can confirm this liberal bias toward both Texas and The South, and also by self-appointed intellectuals toward individuals like myself who tend to not take themselves too seriously. I regularly find myself catching others…

Initial perceptions shape the views people have of each other...it's not just about how people view southerners. I'd guess from your post that you have certain preconceptions about "liberals" and "intellectuals" that aren't always accurate ;)

You can't judge a book by its cover, but that's where first impressions tend to come from.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#63

Even if this were true, pretending to be stupid with the goal of getting elected is far worse than actually being stupid.

Not talking like an Ivy-league graduate isn't the same as pretending to be stupid. When you're around friends who don't understand computer science, do you talk in programming lingo? I assume no. Does that mean you're pretending to be stupid? Again, no.

Bush actively projected stupid. I say this as both an "ivy-league graduate" and as a rural (redneck) American: speak to people as yourself. Most people are not stupid, and pretending to be stupid to be more likeable is absurd. "Smart" is in no way equivalent to "programming lingo".

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#64
I've heard similar things about President Bush's ability to memorize information, I think its even mentioned in W by Oliver Stone. President Clinton has a "photographic" memory. What interests me is how they are able to use that memory to supplement their charisma. People are certainly enthused when you can remember their name, now what about where they are from and what they do and what they contributed in the last meeting and you are able to weave that into a conversation next time you see them. Suddenly you have something to discuss with someone you've only met once.

As liberal who grew up in New York and has lived in Boston since, I completely ate up the Bush as dunce narrative a few years ago. Ironically because it doesn't necessarily paint him as a genius, W by Oliver Stone framed arguments that changed some of my opinions about President Bush. His father's actions, his being born again which helped end his drinking and his staff in the white house very much influenced him, and probably contributed to some of the biases.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#65
post #55
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bush was born and raised in CT an hour outside of NYC. The image of him being a Texan was cultivated in the same way as much of his persona.

...just as every politician learns to create a persona. "The caricature of President Bush is that of a good ol’ boy from Texas who is principled and tough, but just not that bright." Whether genuine or not, that was the caricature he cultivated and embraced, further distancing himself from the "elite" in the minds of most Americans. Whether a voter found this to be charming or not went a long way to how those voters…

Yeah but you've got to appreciate the irony in America. America has a very selective elite who have a very narrow definition of what that elite is (ivy-league, "entrepreneurial", rich, democrat, ...) and is regularly accused of having -very- little tolerance for anyone outside of their core group ... I wouldn't say that's true for the whole group, but there's a significant portion of them that certainly do this.

And this elite is blasting everyone else for not having an equal system. Seriously. Of course the French aristocrats did the same. I'm sure many elites, present and past, liked to claim their superior status was due to "inherent" but ill-defined characteristics : nobility, chivalry, scientific accomplishment (like the Roman elites did) ... are all words that come to mind. None of them held up their own ideals. The majority of French noblemen were cruel drunks. So were most Roman elites if Cicero's anything to go by. I'm not saying America's Ivy-league elite is a bunch of drunks, but they certainly don't satisfy their own rules : they are not social (in the political sense), they do not advance equality (quite the opposite), and most importantly : it is not the case that they're the self-selected best and brightest. Like all other elites, the reason they get in power is that they are in power and get pulled in by their buddies (which, granted, beats why French noblemen were elite : because great-great-great-great-great-granddad managed to get a command position in the king's army. The first generation of French noblemen were probably very capable people who genuinely meant well).

The only distinguishing characteristic that matters in members of America's elite is friendships and other associations with other members of the elite. As for "best and brightest", you could say that there's a (low) lower bar that they need to hit. That's it.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De-emphasizing intellect is a far cry from pretending to be stupid. In fact, character matters at least as much as intelligence in real life. What use is intelligence if you don't have the character to execute when you have to do something hard? And of course, ethics provide the end goals to which intelligence is applied.

So your contention is that character and ethics are exclusive of intelligence? If not, why would one need to feign stupidity in order to project character?

No, that's a preposterous straw man I'm not going to dignify with a serious reply. Read what I actually said.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#67

1. I don't judge his intelligence by how he spoke at speeches or how he presented himself. I don't usually watch Obama's speeches either. But I judge him based on his record, which was flat out abysmal. I actually supported the Iraq War, believe it or not, no matter whether there were WMD's (I'm of a slightly interventionist bent when it comes to foreign policy) - but Bush's handling of that war and the War in Afghan…

I agree about Obama's abysmal record, and yet he gives every impression of being highly intelligent. Maybe Obama and Bush, therefore, are in the same category, probably along with many others: smart and capable, but somehow, as presidents, producing lousy outcomes because of a process of political compromise that leads to bad decisions.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#68

1. I don't judge his intelligence by how he spoke at speeches or how he presented himself. I don't usually watch Obama's speeches either. But I judge him based on his record, which was flat out abysmal. I actually supported the Iraq War, believe it or not, no matter whether there were WMD's (I'm of a slightly interventionist bent when it comes to foreign policy) - but Bush's handling of that war and the War in Afghan…

I agree about Obama's abysmal record, and yet he gives every impression of being highly intelligent. Maybe Obama and Bush, therefore, are in the same category, probably along with many others: smart and capable, but somehow, as presidents, producing lousy outcomes because of a process of political compromise that leads to bad decisions.

Uh, I was talking about Bush's record. I actually think Obama has a fine record, speaking as someone who is economically liberal but somewhat neoconservative on foreign policy,

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#69
I never thought G.W. Bush was particularly bright, but I also never agreed with the popularly held image, which I was sure was grossly underestimating him. This image seemed to animate the kind of people who tended to consider Al Gore to be some kind of colossal intellectual: Al Gore, who, at about the time that Bush was earning a Harvard MBA, was flunking out of divinity school. Divinity school.

Re: George W. Bush is smarter than you

#70

I understand that even a "dumb" president is probably smarter than the average person but on the other hand starting the Iraq war and ignoring the housing bubble are pretty convincing evidence that he was an idiot in all the ways that count. Also impressive how fast these guys appear from under their rocks when they're called upon.

"Ignoring the housing bubble"...great talking point, but sadly, inaccurate. The most significant obstacle that blocked attempts by the Bush administration to combat the runaway housing/financial sector bubble was a Democratic House that strongly believed in the "affordable housing mission", and obstructed reform and investigation via their stranglehold on the House Financial Services Committee.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/200...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=NQXbT5ZMYaY

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