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There are Ladies Present

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Re: There are Ladies Present

#61

Post by shmidley »

This is very simple. Women have an instinctive revulsion of anything that could be construed as sexual. This is no doubt a relic of our early days as a species, where a sexual context that a woman had not pre-approved could mean a costly nine month pregnancy. This is why its not just dick jokes that women consider offensive, but even something as simple as calling a hat cute. If it can be construed from your words that you are a male who sexually desires females, then the words will result in women taking offense. It doesn't matter if its not directed at any woman present, or if the idea of a presenter sexually assaulting a conference-goer is inherently absurd. These are our instincts, and you can't change them.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine why this is your problem to solve.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#62

Post by dizzystar »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #50
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

> While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive. To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious priv…

>> To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious privilege.

Amazing how you can write such stuff about someone that you never met. I'll just say you're dead wrong and not bother extrapolating.

The rest of your comment is representative of the very crap I am railing against. You're reading way to much into it and now you want to create drama and tons of deeper meaning into something means almost nothing at all.

EDIT: I just read your comment downstream about Affirmative Action. Fwiw, I am a white guy that went to an all-black school. When I say that, I mean, I was like 1/3 of the entire white population. Regardless, blacks didn't like AA either. I'll let you figure out why.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#64

Post by tptacek »

newnewnew wrote: post #52
tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what an /r/MensRights commenter looks like, right? The weird, totally irrelevant racial tinge the comment has is a signal too, right?

There are people that have the "I'm offended" weapon and people that don't. As far as I can tell offending a woman or a non-Asian racial minority is considered to be a Very Bad Thing. It might even get you fired. And there are no rules. Every person is different and you don't know who you will offend and who you won't. Adria was spotted playing "Cards Against Humanity" at the conference and I would assume that I woul…

Yes, white and/or Asian guy. Live in fear. The rules have changed. There are no rules. Bullets won't harm the women unless they're made of silver. The garlic thing is a myth; they'll just laugh at you before they use their terrifying "I'm offended" fangs to rip your throat out. Keep dogs outside your door to spot the Terminators and the gay people who look just like real humans.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#65

Post by mc32 »

rhdoenges wrote: post #24
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

We have to bite our tongues and be careful of everything we say Every word out of your mouth has an effect on the people around you. Please, consider consequences before you speak. This is not a radical notion.

While this is true, technology and society are conspiring to make society even more coarse and making coarseness even more acceptable. (for example, tweeting and txting and expletive usage among teenagers and beyond). Not only that, but there is also a slow moving trend away from the separation of work and home, professional demeanor and casual demeanor at work. This blurriness contributes to this kind jocular humor creeping into the workplace. There is also the facet of how this is perceived by a people in a society (how in France double entendres are quite normal and sexual repartee btwn the sexes is in metropolitan areas present).

Watch family TV shows form the 70s. Did they say things like "Mom, this sucks"? Watch a family TV show from modern times. It's normal to hear teenaged characters say that on TV. Does anyone even think she meant to say "Mom, that sucks dick"? The ellipsis would have been tagged mentally in the 70s --not today.

What I'm saying is that college/crude humor has crept into society wholesale. Unless there is a societal move away from that, it'll be hard to decouple that from people, even in a professional setting. There would be two forces in opposition and the demarkation is getting blurry.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#66

Post by ciupicri »

jodrellblank wrote: post #55
mindcrime wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sexual joke" are not necessarily "sexist jokes" and there is no particular reason to say that women are somehow traumitized by the mere mention of sexuality. Is making sexual jokes at a conference unprofessional? Yes, but it's unprofessional regardless of the gender of anyone or everyone in earshot. Whether it's unprofessional enough to justify: "You will be gone. Gone." "Count on it." is quite clearly a subjective…

It's not about "the remotest possibility of offending people", it's about the cultural background that a large penis is pushed as a dominating, masculine thing, and being in a room of 80% male attendees and someone makes a "big dongle" comment (for example) skews the environment in a male-friendly-masculine-dominance way and a female-unfriendly way. In the same way that being around a group of really rich people and…

Since you've started this analogy what am I doing in that group of rich people if I don't belong there? Also, do I really want to be there or am I doing it just because it's cool or whatever?

Re: There are Ladies Present

#67

Post by hazov »

dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

You Americans have a real love story with this political correctness thing that I'll never understand, when I say love I mean bashing it.

In the past it was the commies, now that they're gone I believe this is a good way of saying why things fell apart and why the are not as good as in the old days, if they were ever that good.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#68

Post by anotherbadlogin »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #50
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

> While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive. To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious priv…

What a crock.

"Would you tell a male admiral that his hat was "cute"?"

One of us (men) might very well make that crack about a picture of an admiral or a pope.

You're the ignorant one, because you're being duped by infantile and maladjusted people who aren't really offended at all. They're literally throwing a tantrum to get attention, and flourishing in an era where too many people tiptoe around and pander to this crap.

Here's an "ignorant" sentiment for you to chew on: GROW A NUT.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#69

Post by hashbanged »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #50
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

> While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive. To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious priv…

>When I first read this in the article, I cringed. Then, when he further tried to 'explain himself' with, "I was mostly making a joke about how seriously C++ programmers take themselves compared to Java programmers," I cringed even harder. IT'S OFFENSIVE TO SAY THAT ONLY MEN TAKE THEMSELVES SERIOUSLY IN PROGRAMMING.

Disclaimer: not defending dizzystar.

The way I interpreted it was that, compared to Java programmers, C++ programmers have a "macho" attitude about being "real programmers," which as a phrase is riffing on the idea of the "real man." Again, not that women don't possess the quality "real" in any way whatsover, but just that I can't even think of what the female equivalent of macho is. Perhaps Bob Martin would have done better to say that the C++ community suffered from excessive testosterone. That's what I believe he was implying, but as he says, we're both just Wilson talking over the fence here.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#70

Post by kimjongillmatic »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #50
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

> While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive. To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious priv…

While we're enjoying our "delicious privilege", I hope you're similarly enjoying your oh-so-righteous victimization complex. Taking offense when no offense is intended is the very picture of being the fun police. You're the kid on the playground who would beg to be let into the game, but then run, crying, to tell his/her (see how neutral I'm being?) mother as soon as he/she got fouled, and then would complain when no one wanted to play with him/her. No one likes that kid.

>> It boils down to men = serious and women = emotional, flippant, hysterical, etc. It's a horrible horrible analogy and quite frankly I'm surprised that didn't blow up in his face even more than it did.

While perhaps not the most innocuous choice of words, testosterone is associated with aggression and strength because testosterone makes you aggressive[1] and strong[2]. Strictly speaking, his statement is not even talking about genders, it's talking about hormones.

[1] http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=tes..., among many others

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20061435 among many others.

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