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Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

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Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#61

Post by rsync »

finnh wrote: post #51
papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC (or KS).

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#62

Post by icebraining »

papsosouid wrote: post #58
finnh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it persona…

How is it an abuse? Because you don't like it?

How about treating the backers like adults who can make their own decisions? Your position comes across as very patronizing.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#63

Post by warfangle »

simonsarris wrote: post #28

I'm glad that "Meaningful PvP" was singled out. PvP is important to me and its one of the things that Ultima Online got right that vast swaths of MMOs since have floundered with (in my opinion). In parts of the world (Felucca[1]), UO was a rare RPG where anyone could kill anyone, for any reason, but with the repercussion that they would be branded a "Bad person" (visible with a gray or red name instead of blue). Stea…

I played back before the trammel/felucca split. (I was a beta player -- people who play MMO betas these days are spoiled compared to how UO beta was; I still have the install CD that we had to pay s/h for! Ah, 1996.)

I still think the split was a bad idea. I think of Eve now the way I thought of UO back then: if you can't afford to lose it, don't leave town with it.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#64

Post by adventured »

papsosouid wrote: post #58
finnh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it persona…

He's doing a tremendous service to Kickstarter in fact. It's beautiful that the platform can be used to get the ball rolling on a potentially fantastic new gaming world. One of the most renowned video game developers in history chooses to use crowd funding to kickstart his new game, and directly involve those who are willing to take a risk with their money because they want to see the game exist - what a tremendous accomplishment for Kickstarter.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#65

Post by adventured »

rsync wrote: post #61
finnh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC (or KS).

Rich entrepreneurs should not fully fund their next company, and instead should seek VC or KS.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#66

Post by jiggy2011 »

papsosouid wrote: post #58
finnh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it persona…

Well, you may get some form of return in that you probably get the game cheaper via kickstarter in exchange for taking on some risk.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#67

Post by hoggle »

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

Lord British is back, that alone is enough for me. I love that man, he is always willing to push the boundaries - a very rare in prohibitively nowadays expensive game dev world. Why should he risk his kingdom when he can assess interest very effectively with Kickstarter while maintaining more creative freedom (either by having more leverage in negotiations with publishers and/or banks). One million dollar is nothing in comparison to most AAA games, it will still be risky. I love the thought of being able to help kick starting another Ultima project! Love & peace my friend.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#68

Post by Semaphor »

gebe wrote: post #30

Might as well chime in with another Kickstarter in progress for a spiritual successor of another famous RPG: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-... Kickstarter has been really great so far for people, like myself, who were and are very fond of the "old school" type of RPGs.

Kinda happy this seems as bad as it does, prevents me from backing yet another project so shortly after Torment.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#69

Post by runevault »

papsosouid wrote: post #58
finnh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it persona…

VCs also put a lot more money than $45 into it. Besides that fact, Kickstarter has to approve any project that appears on the site, so THEY obviously feel this is perfectly okay. I trust their opinion above some random person on the internet who wants to keep KS 'pure.'

Also this project is good for KS because it will likely bring at least a few new people onboard to join the site and fund this project (seem to recall them saying once people join they tend to start funding more projects), not to mention the obvious that they get their cut to help fund further improvements on the site.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#70

Post by glurgh »

wodow wrote: post #38
simonsarris wrote: post #28

I'm glad that "Meaningful PvP" was singled out. PvP is important to me and its one of the things that Ultima Online got right that vast swaths of MMOs since have floundered with (in my opinion). In parts of the world (Felucca[1]), UO was a rare RPG where anyone could kill anyone, for any reason, but with the repercussion that they would be branded a "Bad person" (visible with a gray or red name instead of blue). Stea…

Vote yes to permanent death [1] in MMOs! Richard Bartle: "[without permanent death] Newbies (and not-so-newbies) feel they can never catch up. The people in front will always be in front, and there's no way to overtake them. The horizon advances at the speed you approach it." [2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_death [2] Designing Virtual Worlds, 2003

Really, permanent death? PvP corpse looting? These are profoundly user-hating mechanics and their removal is likely among the factors that made WoW successful.

There are other ways to allow newbies to catch up and to incentivize or disincentivize players that don't rely on 'ruining your month of gameplay'.

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