Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter • Hacker News Board

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#51

Post by finnh » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done.

That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#52

Post by papsosouid » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

autarch wrote: post #49

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

Or ... this is a good way for him to see if there's actual interest in the product. And given his track record of actually finishing stuff, it seems like this is relatively low risk as far as Kickstarter projects go.

Neither of your points address the concern I raised. This is a guy who paid $30M to go in to space for fun. A guy who lives in a castle. If he wants to make a game, he can. He doesn't need kickstarter at all. He is simply using it to make a game for free, rather than investing in it personally. The idea behind kickstarter was to allow people who couldn't get funding through traditional channels an opportunity to appeal directly to their potential customer base for funding. Not a way to make rich people richer with no risk to themselves.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#53

Post by adventured » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

He's exchanging money for copies of the game, not to mention other trinkets, as a form of funding. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and he isn't abusing crowd funding. Quite the opposite in fact.

You act like people are being forced to pay up for the kick starter.

What you apparently want to change is free will.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#54

Post by clavalle » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:37 PM UTC

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

Well, the risk for people backing someone with his track record is pretty minimal.

I agree with you, though. To me the spirit of kickstarter is getting the small folk off the ground not as a pre-order channel for established players.

Kickstarter or someone else should spin off a cleverly named 'pre-order/guage public interest' site.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#55

Post by adventured » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:39 PM UTC

Erwin wrote: post #40

I'm not sure what to feel when someone who spent (reportedly) $30MM for a space trip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Garriott#Spaceflight asks me for $1MM But I guess the more power to semi-independent studios we can give through Kickstarter the better. I like the $10 "guilt pledge": "If you ever pirated an Ultima game or used an exploit to grief other players in Ultima Online, here’s your chance to repent! For…

It's real simple.

Don't spend a penny of your money toward it if you don't want to / if you disagree with it.

And $1 million? It's going to cost radically more than that to launch the product. You do realize how much even a mid size title costs to make these days, right? All $1 million does is get the ball rolling (barely).

Try $15 to $30 million dollars just to build it out.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#56

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:41 PM UTC

Kickstarter should spin out their video games category into its own brand. After all of the long-dead series/genres they've been reviving, they're the most beloved "publisher" in ages, the direct opposite of EA/Activision.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#57

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

I think that for projects like this, Kickstarter is becoming less a place to raise funding, but more of a place to gather publicity. The site is fast becoming a household name and as far as games go, has high prestige for a place where alternative, retro, hardcore games go to be revived.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#58

Post by papsosouid » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

finnh wrote: post #51

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it personally instead of taking VC money, I specifically said taking VC money was one of the two options he should have taken.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#59

Post by adventured » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

bobsy wrote: post #11

I am going to rant about graphics here. The graphics on this game look 8 years old. A game doesn't need to look fantastic to be good but surely a new game should have good graphics. I am not talking about realistic graphics. Simply esthetically pleasing graphics. The graphics in the video look like something from runescape... Looking elsewhere. Is this game not called 'Ultima Online' because Garriot doesn't own the r…

Imagine how poorly something like Minecraft would sell today. Minecraft was amazing when it was released with a 256 color palette in 1993, but nobody would go for that today.

People want graphics, not great gameplay...

No, they want great gameplay first, and great graphics second. That has always been true and will always be true.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#60

Post by jsnell » Fri, Mar 08, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

Erwin wrote: post #40

I'm not sure what to feel when someone who spent (reportedly) $30MM for a space trip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Garriott#Spaceflight asks me for $1MM But I guess the more power to semi-independent studios we can give through Kickstarter the better. I like the $10 "guilt pledge": "If you ever pirated an Ultima game or used an exploit to grief other players in Ultima Online, here’s your chance to repent! For…

You're probably thinking of Kickstarter in its original "support a cool project to make it happen" mindset. Like most high profile projects, this isn't like that. It's one part marketing, one part a pre-order system, and one part a market research tool. In that light the personal wealth of the project owner is irrelevant.