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Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

wireframeapp.com

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Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#61

Post by eridius »

eduardordm wrote: post #52
ghshephard wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused - if you opened a company, then there is obviously going to be a lot more paperwork/hoops to jump through than if you did this as an individual. Maybe I'm missing something here - why didn't you just publish the App as an individual?

My idea was to release an app every 3-5 months and make at least 60k/year. I cannot sell that much in Brazil as a individual (limit here is 36k BRL). Actually, it took me 8 days to open the company. At the first day I had the CNPJ (EIN in the US), so, in fact, it took me less than 24 hours to be able to accept payments. I don't see the app store as a viable way of making a living anymore (for single developers). I'll…

First off, you actually have a limit on how much an individual developer can make? That sounds crazy.

Secondly, I don't understand your anger at Apple. They don't control DUNS numbers. It's not their fault that you're having a problem getting one.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#62

Post by eduardordm »

ricardobeat wrote: post #59

Apparently there are faster/easier ways to obtain a DUNS number: http://blog.metamorphium.com/2012/12/03/apple-duns/ http://dominikbalogh.com/post/20605187847/how-to-quickly-obt... Though, individual accounts don't require one - why did you need an enterprise account for a standard app (no enterprise installs)?

DUNS number is now a requirement for all companies, not just enterprise deploys.

Methods above won't work on Brazil, you need to actually call them to request the number. (They send you a .xls to fill out).

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#63

Post by terrywilcox »

verelo wrote: post #24
apike wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process described only works in the US. Internationally, you need to contact DNB and go through the multi-week horror. Eduardo appears to be in Brazil.

In Canada ours took several weeks. Luckily we prepared the submission ahead of time and discovered this was important, so we had one by the time we were ready for submission. Having said that, the submission process didn't explain what a DUNs number was important for and it seemed like a weird thing to need...i share the frustration.

I'm in Canada and my DUNS application took about a week.

As far as I'm concerned it's just another business number that I need to apply for.

You won't get far in business if you don't have the patience to put up with all the stupid paperwork.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#64

Post by [deleted] »

nanijoe wrote: post #58
cageface wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this many times here before but I'll say it again - the way to make money on the app store is to build apps on contract for other people. If building and selling your own products is your goal then there are other platforms and distribution channels that are much less hostile to the small indie dev.

Can you share what platforms / distribution channels you recommend?

[deleted]

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#65

Post by ricardobeat »

eduardordm wrote: post #52
ghshephard wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused - if you opened a company, then there is obviously going to be a lot more paperwork/hoops to jump through than if you did this as an individual. Maybe I'm missing something here - why didn't you just publish the App as an individual?

My idea was to release an app every 3-5 months and make at least 60k/year. I cannot sell that much in Brazil as a individual (limit here is 36k BRL). Actually, it took me 8 days to open the company. At the first day I had the CNPJ (EIN in the US), so, in fact, it took me less than 24 hours to be able to accept payments. I don't see the app store as a viable way of making a living anymore (for single developers). I'll…

AFAIK 36k/year is the cut-off for lower taxes, not a hard limit (for independent workers/RPA). You do get much lower taxes by doing business as a company though.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#66

Post by eblade »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #13
apike wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process described only works in the US. Internationally, you need to contact DNB and go through the multi-week horror. Eduardo appears to be in Brazil.

In the UK I used this[1] and got the number instantly. [1] http://salesmarketing.dnb.co.uk/find_my_company/

Same here. I used D-U-N-S Profile Lookup[1] and entered the company's detail (Singapore company). An hour later, I received an email containing the D-U-N-S number from noreply-appledev@apple.com

[1]https://developer.apple.com/ios/enroll/dunsLookupForm.action

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#67

Post by Steko »

eridius wrote: post #61
eduardordm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea was to release an app every 3-5 months and make at least 60k/year. I cannot sell that much in Brazil as a individual (limit here is 36k BRL). Actually, it took me 8 days to open the company. At the first day I had the CNPJ (EIN in the US), so, in fact, it took me less than 24 hours to be able to accept payments. I don't see the app store as a viable way of making a living anymore (for single developers). I'll…

First off, you actually have a limit on how much an individual developer can make? That sounds crazy. Secondly, I don't understand your anger at Apple. They don't control DUNS numbers. It's not their fault that you're having a problem getting one.

Elaborating a bit on DUNS:

My understanding is that DUNS was not always a requirement for companies publishing on the iOS App Store. It was added about a year and a half ago (?) and given the timing and what DUNS represents it seems reasonable to assume that it was added as a reaction to app spammers and scammers that would run fly by night operations, take people's money and run.

DUNS may not have been the best solution and like other areas of the submission/approval process it seems there are some obvious quality of life improvements Apple should implement but in the big picture what is the alternative to DUNS?

(1) Go back to scammer friendly system. Yeah I don't see that happening.

(2) Apple holds the money for longer. I don't see people lining up for this option.

(3) Everyone has to buy insurance. Spoilers: insurer asks for DUNS number.

(4) A better partner than D&B. Is there one? The US government appears to be looking for alternatives as well[1] but it doesn't look like there is a good replacement.

[1] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-715R

GSA has been conducting an analysis of alternatives for the use of Dun & Bradstreet's DUNS entity unique identifier and is expected to complete its analysis by March 30, 2013.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#68

Post by terrywilcox »

eduardordm wrote: post #50
lessnonymous wrote: post #34

I don't see what problem you're solving by open sourcing, therefore this is just a misguided publicity grab. * The "open letter" goes from addressing Apple to addressing potential developers. * What does open-sourcing give you other than people to help you write code for free? You still can't put the app on the app store and therefore can't release it to users. You can get it on third-party app stores instantly alrea…

The problem itself (taking too long to publish the app because of duns number requirement) can't be solved without waiting (or money), really. I'm not really solving any problem by open sourcing it, but as I give up developing for the app store my idea is to open source it, build a small group of developers, find someone smarter than me to work with. I don't think selling apps on the app store is a viable source on i…

It's best that you give up now. The app submission and approval process also requires patience. As do all the stupid users with their stupid questions and stupid one star reviews because they don't understand how it works.

And the paperwork around income statements, balance sheets, depreciation, and taxes is horrible. Business licenses, legal documents, blah blah blah.

Like I said, it's best that you quit before you even get to the really frustrating stuff.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#69

Post by ricardobeat »

eduardordm wrote: post #62
ricardobeat wrote: post #59

Apparently there are faster/easier ways to obtain a DUNS number: http://blog.metamorphium.com/2012/12/03/apple-duns/ http://dominikbalogh.com/post/20605187847/how-to-quickly-obt... Though, individual accounts don't require one - why did you need an enterprise account for a standard app (no enterprise installs)?

DUNS number is now a requirement for all companies, not just enterprise deploys. Methods above won't work on Brazil, you need to actually call them to request the number. (They send you a .xls to fill out).

The question was why you'd need a company account instead of an individual one - I see you have already answered that elsewhere.

The second link (.de) seems to offer registration for Brazil, though I haven't done that myself.

Re: Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source

#70

Post by eduardordm »

eridius wrote: post #61
eduardordm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea was to release an app every 3-5 months and make at least 60k/year. I cannot sell that much in Brazil as a individual (limit here is 36k BRL). Actually, it took me 8 days to open the company. At the first day I had the CNPJ (EIN in the US), so, in fact, it took me less than 24 hours to be able to accept payments. I don't see the app store as a viable way of making a living anymore (for single developers). I'll…

First off, you actually have a limit on how much an individual developer can make? That sounds crazy. Secondly, I don't understand your anger at Apple. They don't control DUNS numbers. It's not their fault that you're having a problem getting one.

Not really, probably the US has a limit of how much you can sell without being a company too.
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