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Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

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Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I am saying is that go ahead and do something about it. Stop preaching to the people who don't believe you and don't agree with your outlook. If your way is truly better then it should give better results. If it gives better results then you will do more good via paying more taxes and helping people out. Lead by an example. Don't lament old ways, make us want to follow in your path. That is all I am proposing and…

> arguments for the sake of truth as I personally see it. That's called an opinion, not the truth. And in this case it is a misguided opinion. Attitudes like yours directly result in mass pollution, overfishing, enslavement - direct or indirect and so on. Profits aren't holy, and the so called efficient market model isn't. It only works for a subset of problems and quite possibly not optimal at that, especially when…

> That's called an opinion, not the truth. And in this case it is a misguided opinion.

Excuse my style of expression.

> Attitudes like yours directly result in mass pollution, overfishing, enslavement - direct or indirect and so on.

How so?

> Profits aren't holy, and the so called efficient market model isn't. It only works for a subset of problems and quite possibly not optimal at that, especially when looking over the longer term. Do we pollute this river and kill all the fish or do we spend an extra half million to scrub the exhaust. That's an easy decision when translated into money, if you're not looking at that river as anything but an exhaust it is an absolute no-brainer.

Whoah cowboy. You are accusing me of things I detest, all of them. I assume two concepts in all of my writing in this topic.

1. The institution of Corporation is concerned only with gaining profit for its shareholders. In accordance to the law. Now while I believe that it is in the best interest of the companies and their shareholders to do stuff the right way in the most idealistic sense. However none of that is built into the institution of Corporation.

2. First, that every sovereign nation has institutions that get to say how shit gets done here. And second that every sovereign nation by definition wants to say which institutions it observes and which it doesn't.

Many people do not know how third world works. Mostly people do not care at all. They want their bribe and they want to feel important. That is the way they do business and that is the way they want to do business. Until they wont.

Corporations are not helping, that is true. However megacorps are not the ones called to make third world institutions. The third world people are the ones who are called to do it.

Blaming corporations for everything is not helping out in my opinion. Its people's fault, hiding behind faceless institutions, yes. But still people's fault.

The issue you have with megacorps is that they are extra sovereign and that indeed is a problem. However multi national megacorp is an extremely new phenomena and will probably take a while to get properly solved.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We live in the golden age of human history up to now and I would be willing to place a long bet that in 100 years, we will look back on the last 30 years as the dawn of the modern age. Well, we live in the golden age of human _technology_. But, I'd argue, far from the golden age of human history. And maybe closer than ever to the extinction of mankind, if that "let's fix the climate issue with even more technology…

Every moment is the closest moment to date to the extinction of mankind.

Unfortunately...Humanity is furthering its technology for both it's survival, and its ultimate destruction. We are but a few years from seeing the truth behind the potential of autonomous robotics, machine-learning, and artificial intelligence.

At that point, humanity will play very little role in the evolution of technology.

:-\

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#63
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we are missing as a society is Long Term Thinking. Yes businesses do provide value and reduce human suffering as long as its perceived to reduce human suffering from the customer's point of view. For example, cigarettes. It does provide some value but only for the short term without thinking about the long term. If society makes it legal to sell Meth to the public I am sure big pharma will jump on the opportunit…

Big pharma is already makes billions of dollars off of amphetamines. It's used responsibly my millions of people. It hasn't stopped people from abusing them even though they are illegal without a prescription. I'm not sure that's the pharma companies responsible if individuals choose to abuse something that has legitimate uses and strong demand. If the government can't stop it, does that mean the pharma companies hav…

Individual should be assumed flawed, shortsighted and selfish. As long as the individual makes decisions for herself its all ok, it is considered freedom. The problem is big companies act like the individuals even though their effects are far reaching.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#64
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

> It's mostly about making money Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. Sure, any political system will include a bit of corruption and rent-seeking, but by-and-large, it's exactly the profit motive that has improved the human condition. > billions_ of people continue to do that So it's all pointless? Because we haven't achieved a paradise of endless blis…

>Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange.

That's ideology. Specifically, an Adam Smith style ideology.

You can very well make money without improving human life in exchange.

Heck, you make tons of money without improving human life. Like being an arms dealer. Or an African warlord. Or a crack dealer. Or a huge money seeking corporation selling sugar water. Or the very same way Belgium made tons of money for a small elite by royally fucking over tens of millions of people in Africa.

The reverse is also true: "you can improve the human life without making any money". The same way Ghandi or MLK improved human life without selling anything or being involved in any commercial enterprise.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really pathetic that you interpret the modern (and ongoing) economic oppression of the 3rd world to a personal attack on White men. Grow up.

Where and how did I do that? All I am saying is that us Humans are a vicious bunch. I have no illusions that Indians would have slaughtered Europeans if they had the means to do so. If Dutch didn't buy slaves, they would die working for someone else. Was Japanese military and economic oppression merely an attempt to dethrone The White Man(tm) as chairman of hell? What if Mongols had managed to get their act together?…

The fact that you can imagine hypothetical situations where the oppressed was the oppressor, or was oppressed by others, doesn't excuse the actions taken by their actual oppressor. "...us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#66
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's mostly about making money Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. Sure, any political system will include a bit of corruption and rent-seeking, but by-and-large, it's exactly the profit motive that has improved the human condition. > billions_ of people continue to do that So it's all pointless? Because we haven't achieved a paradise of endless blis…

> Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. That's ideology. Specifically, an Adam Smith style ideology. You can very well make money without improving human life in exchange. Heck, you make tons of money without improving human life. Like being an arms dealer. Or an African warlord. Or a crack dealer. Or a huge money seeking corporation selling sugar water.…

You are not the arbiter of other people's values. People drink coke because they enjoy it. Keep your moral outrage reasonable please.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me then, when was golden age of human history then in your opinion? I have a problem with you new age romantics, bitching about issues of current civilization without providing alternatives or even realizing what "reversing" current state of affairs would really mean.

> Enlighten me then, when was golden age of human history then in your opinion? Ever occurred to you that it might be in the future? Or that human history was perpetually in the same state of mess? Good for a few, a nightmare for others? Or that "good for humanity" and technological advancements are not necessarily the same thing, and that e.g living an agrarian life in some 18th century farm could be better for some…

I would be wary of romanticizing the past. The 60s were not necessarily a picnic if you were black, a woman, or a poor male.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. That's ideology. Specifically, an Adam Smith style ideology. You can very well make money without improving human life in exchange. Heck, you make tons of money without improving human life. Like being an arms dealer. Or an African warlord. Or a crack dealer. Or a huge money seeking corporation selling sugar water.…

You are not the arbiter of other people's values. People drink coke because they enjoy it. Keep your moral outrage reasonable please.

> Or a huge money seeking corporation selling sugar water.

If you remove the word 'sugar' from this sentence, it will still be true and also the problem of value arbitrage will be mostly gone. Bottled water is a worldwide scam.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#69
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big pharma is already makes billions of dollars off of amphetamines. It's used responsibly my millions of people. It hasn't stopped people from abusing them even though they are illegal without a prescription. I'm not sure that's the pharma companies responsible if individuals choose to abuse something that has legitimate uses and strong demand. If the government can't stop it, does that mean the pharma companies hav…

Individual should be assumed flawed, shortsighted and selfish. As long as the individual makes decisions for herself its all ok, it is considered freedom. The problem is big companies act like the individuals even though their effects are far reaching.

But companies are just made up of individuals. Individuals make the decisions. Therfore they should be held under the same scrutiny.

The difference is individuals have tons of direct consequences for their actions, but individuals inside (big) corporations who make bad decisions are masked and protected thanks to the legal system (corporate personhood), government policy and influence of money on both of those.

Acting maliciously results in bulk monetary settlements and rarely result in the individuals getting burned. Just look through the yearly pharma settlements, they pay a small percentage of their revenue and things continue on business as usual with zero market effects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_...

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#70
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really sure we as western hemisphere do not own nothing to the eastern or more accurately to people who struggle? I'm no historian but I heard something about the wiping out Indians and enslaving African people. Are you really sure you can say that we are independent snowflakes who deserve all things by right and to not actually look where to pay back for our mistakes to improve all Earth life conditions no m…

Killed people cannot be brought back. Greed is always bad. However you are putting strawmen about. Let me explain. The Indian situation was at least as unfortunate as Jewish situation in ancient Babilon or Gypsy (Roma) situation in ancient Babilon. Or the situation of Amalekites and Midianites. Or the situation of Moors for that matter. It is unfortunate that sometimes two civilizations clash and cannot get to grips…

> Africans did their own enslaving and western slave traders merely bought the available goods.

There's no such thing as "merely buing the available goods". The very existence of a will to buy creates incentive to make the goods available. It is always a feedback loop, and you cannot shift blame around it. Both parties are equally responsible for participating.

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