Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

mergy.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 239 posts

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#61

Post by LnxPrgr3 »

blhack wrote: post #15

Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. The problem is that teenagers are quick to jump ship to the coolest new thing. Apple has been making "coolest new thing" for a while, but they're getting really popular now, which seems to be inversely proportional to "cool". For RIM, they moved away from targeting hardcore, email-addicted business…

People keep saying this, but I'm not sure why.

Maybe my experience is warped, but if I had to stereotype I'd say it's younger people walking around with Android phones and older well-off businesspeople walking around with iPhones. I'm not sure "targeting teenagers" really holds.

The people I know who still use Blackberries? Both of them are hardcore fans. Back in the 90s, every Mac user I knew was a hardcore fan… all five or so of them.

Apple is what it is today because it started selling to everyone else. RIM is what it is today because it hasn't yet figured out how to do that.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#62

Post by rimantas »

ripperdoc wrote: post #55
amadeus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you can justify statement like that from the proposed evidence. The App Store and iTunes Store are pretty damned successful services, whether you like them or not. iCloud is not a joke, it does it's job well for the 99%. I turn on my new phone, enter my apple id, and I have all my settings, apps, etc synced and ready to go.

That is true, but they all represent somehow the older version of connected software, as a pure extension of the device rather than a service on it's own. iCloud works great for a device as an invisible backup, but you can't use it to share files, co-operate, publish, share data between applications, etc. And I'd say the popular web services of today are so because they integrate across services and socialize the usa…

Well, there is some sharing (PhotoStream), but you are right in general. And even if Google is 5 years ahead (I don't think they are), and I do use google services for sharing, the thing is I don't enjoy it. Functionality is there, but experience is lacking, alas I cannot pinpoint why. Just every time I use Google docs or Google drive I want to get out as soon as possible. For this reason I don't see Apples lack of these services as a big problem and I don't see Googles offer as a big advantage. It is possible, however, that with right implementation it may become a necessity.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#63

Post by tjogin »

ekianjo wrote: post #41
arn wrote: post #12

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 20…

I think it is not so much "computer as an appliance" which is the issue but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made. Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency. Otherwise I agree with you, Apple has not changed a bit. Some people…

You can't do less with an iPad than with an Apple II, you can do a great deal more. And you can also do a great deal more with an iPad if your previous experience with computers was mostly confusing.

It depends on how you define "you". Broadly, the term "you" means "people". It doesn't mean "every person under the sun, especially programmers".

If we correct for misinterpretations, I would say people in general can do more with simpler computing platforms that are more appliance-like than with their mostly confusing computer that more often acts in confusing manners, and that more often seems to be ridden with viruses and malware (whether it is or not), and also sports a number of features and buttons which if clicked the wrong way, can cause the computer to be broken (whether true or not).

When people talk about what "you" can do, they are not talking about you, specifically.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#64

Post by rimantas »

ekianjo wrote: post #41
arn wrote: post #12

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 20…

I think it is not so much "computer as an appliance" which is the issue but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made. Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency. Otherwise I agree with you, Apple has not changed a bit. Some people…

  > you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in
  > the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made.
Can you be specific about "less and less"? You can no take a movie, edit it, compose music for it and publish it online with your phone only.

  > Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just
  > plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency.

  Are you talking about Windows 8 or iOS, or Linux? The problem with Windows 8 was not turning desktop OS into tablet OS, it's stopping in between.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#65

Post by kitsune_ »

nostromo wrote: post #44

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

I disagree. I own a Lenovo Thinkpad x220. It's perfect (for me).

Its keyboard is reason alone that it beats the MacBook Pro.

On top of that, I bought it back in 2011 for around 960 USD (converted). The configuration included an i5-2520M, 8GB of RAM, 320GB HDD, an 80GB m-SATA SSD and an upgrade to a 3-year on-site warranty.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#66

Post by rimantas »

wging wrote: post #49
nostromo wrote: post #44

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.

Zero upgradeability (in the sense of zero need to upgrade: does not break, is powerful enough) is a good sign of well designed.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#67

Post by pjmlp »

arn wrote: post #12

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 20…

The issue is that many Apple fanboys never experienced the original Apple, the one with proprietary connectors and Mac OS specific APIs for video, 2D, 3D, networking ....

When Apple tried to cater to the open source community using the UNIX underpinnings of Mac OS X, young generations thought Apple was always more open than Microsoft, when actually they were the opposite.

Now that they are back on top with more profits than ever, they are as they always were.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#68

Post by DigitalJack »

aneth4 wrote: post #54
cageface wrote: post #10

iCloud is a joke. Like eWorld. Like .Mac. Like MobileMe. You can’t do this stuff. This, I predict, is going to turn out to be Apple's achilles heel. They make great hardware and their software is good enough but they just don't get services. Google does services better than anybody and they're quickly closing the other gaps.

What is so wrong with iCloud? It does exactly what I want it to do - back up my phone and sync my data between devices. Maybe people try to use it for more than this?

I can tell you what is wrong with iCloud. It's supposed to be a sort of magical data sharing, but apparently it's only partially magical when it comes to OSX.

Go ahead, make a keynote deck, or numbers spreadsheet. Save it to "the cloud," now go look at your ipad or iphone. Where the hell is it? So much for magic.

Sharing is a royal pain in the ass with iOS. The gyrations I have to go through to move data from an ios app to the desktop is ridiculous and often impossible.

I'm hopeful they will get iCloud up to spec eventually, but for now it just sucks.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#69

Post by vitalique »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #13

This sounds more like bandwagon-backlash than the real thing. There's no reasons here. Just a bunch of recycled generic complaints that are pretty trendy to toss around about Apple these days. The next cool thing is hating Apple so all the Apple users will probably write more articles like this and we'll have to read it every day on the front page. Brace yourselves.

I don't get why the parent is being downvoted and I dislike silent knee-jerk-downvoting at HN very much.

I'm absolutely orthogonal to Apple's services and devices - just never used them, and article does not seem to shed almost any lights on whether I should or shouldn't try to. Actually, it confuses me even more: author dislikes Apple's services (or does he? he's been so enthusiastic in the past!), makes some unclear points about Apple being a 'consumer electronics company now', and then suddenly wraps up with him being perfectly happy with his MacBook Pro today. Now throw in a pathetic iTitle and prepare your WordPress to be hit by the frontpages of the Internet. Am I missing something?

What the article does show clearly though is that we're in urgent need of some nagging/whining detector, if not for the whole Internet then at least for HN's frontpage.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#70

Post by tjogin »

blhack wrote: post #15

Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. The problem is that teenagers are quick to jump ship to the coolest new thing. Apple has been making "coolest new thing" for a while, but they're getting really popular now, which seems to be inversely proportional to "cool". For RIM, they moved away from targeting hardcore, email-addicted business…

Apple has never been about the hardcore. They've always made as appliance-like products as they can for the everyman.
Post reply on HN