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Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

theguardian.com

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Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#61

Post by raphman »

apothegm wrote: post #47
raphman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article says: this is not a general speed limit but an experimental speed limit for an apparently very crowded area where many kids cycle to school. As someone whose 'normal biking speed' ist typically 30+ km/h on suitable bike lanes, I have no problems with speed limits at critical choke points.

Ah, this bit of crucial context seems to be missing from the entire rest of the discussion. Also makes what otherwise sounds like an uncharacteristically bike-hostile move actually seem fairly reasonable. Tho tbf one still hopes that they come up with an infrastructure solution that makes it unnecessary in the long run.

I'm not sure whether the Guardian article mentioned this or another one I read: the road segment in question seems to be in the old town which makes it difficult to find an architectural solution.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#62

Post by ErroneousBosh »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #50
david-gpu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pedal-assist e-bike with a 500 Watt motor and an easily bypassed speed governor looks like a bicycle, it is pedaled like a bicycle, and yet it is unsuitable for a bicycle lane or a path shared with pedestrians.

What's even the point of pedal-assisted bicycles, other than gaming the system and exploiting some legal quirks? Neither they are fast, powerful, or have reasonable range, yet are already too heavy to pedal only.

They work well for people who have limited mobility; think in terms of people who would otherwise be able to cycle but would tire easily, for example.

They're apparently pretty good for cargo bikes where you can pull a heavy load much more easily.

I personally don't like 'em because I can get to 15.5mph very quickly and then it's like running into a wall because they're so heavy.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#63

Post by tpm »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #50
david-gpu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pedal-assist e-bike with a 500 Watt motor and an easily bypassed speed governor looks like a bicycle, it is pedaled like a bicycle, and yet it is unsuitable for a bicycle lane or a path shared with pedestrians.

What's even the point of pedal-assisted bicycles, other than gaming the system and exploiting some legal quirks? Neither they are fast, powerful, or have reasonable range, yet are already too heavy to pedal only.

The point of pedal-assisted e-bicycles is to assist pedalling and they are hugely popular. Around 30% of bikes I met on my ride today was them. It's a hilly ride with some slopes that are way too steep for recreational cyclists, older folks and children; this way they too can enjoy nature further away from the city.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#64

Post by davkan »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
pvtmert wrote: post #18

They need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike. I live in Luxembourg and the infrastructure is not as good as the Netherlands. Majority of offenders (in my experience) are delivery guys and teenagers. Where teenagers simply don't care & do reckless things like passing on a big intersection at full speed on a red light, delivery guys do the same things for extra tips. Some of the fat-tire…

> need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike The only meaningful difference is if there is a motor or not. If there is a motor, it gets a speedometer and you have to stop at stop signs and red lights and follow speed limits. If you are powering yourself, it’s a bit more understandable that you don’t want to stop and start at every intersection. (Though if you have a racing bike, I’d reatt…

There’s no meaningful distinction between a race bike and a commuter bike that can be used for the purposes of lawmaking.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#65

Post by hyperman1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
pvtmert wrote: post #18

They need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike. I live in Luxembourg and the infrastructure is not as good as the Netherlands. Majority of offenders (in my experience) are delivery guys and teenagers. Where teenagers simply don't care & do reckless things like passing on a big intersection at full speed on a red light, delivery guys do the same things for extra tips. Some of the fat-tire…

> need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike The only meaningful difference is if there is a motor or not. If there is a motor, it gets a speedometer and you have to stop at stop signs and red lights and follow speed limits. If you are powering yourself, it’s a bit more understandable that you don’t want to stop and start at every intersection. (Though if you have a racing bike, I’d reatt…

Around here, I've never seen an ebike without speedometer, and everyone on the street should respect street signs and red lights. I see no reason to ignore red lights or stop signs just because you're powering yourself.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#66

Post by davkan »

hyperman1 wrote: post #65
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike The only meaningful difference is if there is a motor or not. If there is a motor, it gets a speedometer and you have to stop at stop signs and red lights and follow speed limits. If you are powering yourself, it’s a bit more understandable that you don’t want to stop and start at every intersection. (Though if you have a racing bike, I’d reatt…

Around here, I've never seen an ebike without speedometer, and everyone on the street should respect street signs and red lights. I see no reason to ignore red lights or stop signs just because you're powering yourself.

I live in a small town with no lights, only stop signs. Everyone yields to bicycles and no one expects them to stop at intersections. Not really relevant to the majority of places though.
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