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There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

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Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#61

Post by tripledry »

schrototo wrote: post #46
modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

But in democracy you do get to say which government you want.

Yes, but the other N% of the country still might vote for the government you didn't want.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#62

Post by modeless »

schrototo wrote: post #46
modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

But in democracy you do get to say which government you want.

You say it, but you don't always get it.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#63

Post by llelouch »

cm2187 wrote: post #55
johnwheeler wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XAI rents out compute to anthropic. I feel like Sam Altman is behind this that little rat.

How is that going to help him? "Our models are so inferior they are not deemed a threat unlike anthropic's"? I think it is either a missile directed at anthropic, as retribution for not giving the DoD what it wants, in which case it is likely to resolve pretty quickly. Or it is a shift of policy toward export restrictions on powerful LLM and then every model will be impacted as they reach the threshold. In which case…

There are many people in this administration invested in OpenAI like the Kushner's. They are attacking Anthropic however they can. You will notice a lot of propaganda on social media sites against anthropic. It's very obvious.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#64

Post by dxuh »

modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

I think it should be noted that the current government, which did this silly thing, belongs to a party that is pretty much advertising on wanting to be a smaller government that gets involved less. That is a large part of why people vote for them.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#65

Post by psychoslave »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #48
schrototo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in democracy you do get to say which government you want.

US is in almost no way democratic. There is not enough unity for that. The idea and reasoning behind Democracy was that a people (i.e. a demos) rules itself. But in US there is no longer one people, and it's fracturing even faster and more.

There is not much example of actual democracy at scale though. Even Switzerland which is often cited as the closest form of actual democratic governance is still not ticking all of the basics of a democratic checklist.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#66

Post by 9dev »

prasadjoglekar wrote: post #57
flanked-evergl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is in almost no way democratic. There is not enough unity for that. The idea and reasoning behind Democracy was that a people (i.e. a demos) rules itself. But in US there is no longer one people, and it's fracturing even faster and more.

All the more reason to let states and local governments do more. Rather than a unitary congress or executive that only 1/2 the people (+/-) like.

The only way to fix things would be proportional representation and moving away from the two party system.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#67

Post by grey-area »

modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

American hostility to the whole concept of government has led you to Trump’s brand of gangster capitalism (which will lead you to fascism if you let it).

Government intervention is good and useful and keeps a markets free and society fair, preventing things like monopolies, robber barons and insider trading.

When those constraints are removed, when government becomes the source of corruption, we end up wheee the US has arrived today - where companies that bribe government officials get preferred treatment and the law is used selectively as a weapon.

This is a very dangerous moment for the US.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#68

Post by 9dev »

Cookingboy wrote: post #59
evilturnip wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the tired follow-up: “But if the government was functioning properly it would only do the things I want”.

And the logical interpretation of that statement would be "if a government doesn't do things I want, it's not functioning properly".

Seems a little slippery-slopey to me

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#69

Post by trhway »

cm2187 wrote: post #55
johnwheeler wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XAI rents out compute to anthropic. I feel like Sam Altman is behind this that little rat.

How is that going to help him? "Our models are so inferior they are not deemed a threat unlike anthropic's"? I think it is either a missile directed at anthropic, as retribution for not giving the DoD what it wants, in which case it is likely to resolve pretty quickly. Or it is a shift of policy toward export restrictions on powerful LLM and then every model will be impacted as they reach the threshold. In which case…

>How is that going to help him?

the first one to do IPO will win big. With the government pressing Anthropic, OpenAI IPO will vacuum up the funds that otherwise would have went into Anthropic IPO as OpenAI was falling behind.

>and the whole datacenter buildout.

somebody just did a $2T IPO with the idea of datacenters in space. One can wonder what laws/jurisdiction those datacenters will be subject to.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#70

Post by simonask »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #48
schrototo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in democracy you do get to say which government you want.

US is in almost no way democratic. There is not enough unity for that. The idea and reasoning behind Democracy was that a people (i.e. a demos) rules itself. But in US there is no longer one people, and it's fracturing even faster and more.

I don't think it's helpful to be flippant in this analysis. The US falls in the category of flawed democracies, together with Botswana, Indonesia, India, Mongolia, Philippines, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, and many other countries with, shall we say, significant potential for development.

I don't think anybody who has actually lived under a pre-democratic regime would call the US "no way democratic". There are many democratic aspects of the US, and it has reasonably strong institutions. But it seems that most Americans have not yet realized what category they're in, and think that the US is some kind of front-runner.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

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