Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why we have never hired an MBA

mattjackrob.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#61

Post by hnriot »

MattRob wrote: post #44
atldev wrote: post #8

This doesn't seem any different than the language wars that take place here. In fact, you could cherry pick anecdotes to support hate towards any demographic- age, hometown, music preferences, etc. An MBA proves nothing more than the candidate was interested in pursuing graduate level education. I'm a solo technical founder. I write code, marketing copy, and proposals. I'm a product manager. And my MBA curriculum cov…

To be clear, it's not an auto-reject, it's an early warning mechanism. I see the relationship between MBAs and cluelessness as one of correlation not causation.

If you find a correlation between MBA and cluelessness then I would either doubt your sample size or your methods. Be very very careful in any kind of statistical fashion to allow anecdotal evidence to cloud your opinion.

People who think there's a correlation with MBA's and cluelessness are themselves, just as clueless.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#62

Post by wpietri »

antr wrote: post #36

I haven't got an MBA but many close friends do - and none of them fit Matt's views. I repeat, none. Having an MBA is not a black and white scenario, and that same "profile" can apply to anyone with no MBA. Still, let the facts do the talking, founders/executers with MBAs: - Chris Dixon (Hunch, among others) - Jeff Skoll (eBay) - Trip Hawkins (Electronic Arts) - Vinod Khosla, Scott McNealy(Sun Microsystems) - Gery Kre…

You talk as if you're proving the article wrong, but from what I recall of the people on the list, it's just the opposite.

Chris Dixon, for example, worked for years as a developer and more years at a VC before he founded anything.

Jeff Skoll joined eBay after it was already profitable. And he had started two businesses before getting his MBA.

Trip Hawkins joined Apple specifically to work with successful entrepreneurs to learn how they did it, and he joined them at 50 people, not 15.

None of these people would have made the mistake that the MBAs who approach Matt did, which was assuming that the mere having of an MBA qualified them to take a major role at a startup.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#63

Post by [deleted] »

MattRob wrote: post #38
antr wrote: post #36

I haven't got an MBA but many close friends do - and none of them fit Matt's views. I repeat, none. Having an MBA is not a black and white scenario, and that same "profile" can apply to anyone with no MBA. Still, let the facts do the talking, founders/executers with MBAs: - Chris Dixon (Hunch, among others) - Jeff Skoll (eBay) - Trip Hawkins (Electronic Arts) - Vinod Khosla, Scott McNealy(Sun Microsystems) - Gery Kre…

I totally agree. As I said in the original post: "I am not trying to argue that there is no place for MBAs, or that no MBA has a clue about startups – both of those are demonstrably untrue. Also having an MBA itself is clearly not the problem."

[deleted]

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#64

Post by antr »

wpietri wrote: post #56
antr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title should be "Why we have never hired someone who wants to be a Product Manager". The MBA angle/title is total link-bait and a cheap way of stereotyping anyone. These type of posts, in the past year, have turned HN into the perfect example of double standards.

No, I think it's a real issue. The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles. That's great; the degree was designed to give future managers a broad, intellectual understanding of business as practiced by large American corporations. Startups don't have those roles. At all. If you've hired right, everybody has smart opinions and nobody needs much management. What you need is people who can…

"The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles." How does this sound: "The typical route for a CS grad is a job as a software engineer at SAP". Get it?

As a startup founder let me just say that NO degree prepares you for a startup. I guess you are right on one thing, the common denominator: "People with experience" - with my caveat of: regardless of your background. Your comment comes across like a double standard - which I do mention out above.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#65

Post by wpietri »

antr wrote: post #64
wpietri wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think it's a real issue. The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles. That's great; the degree was designed to give future managers a broad, intellectual understanding of business as practiced by large American corporations. Startups don't have those roles. At all. If you've hired right, everybody has smart opinions and nobody needs much management. What you need is people who can…

"The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles." How does this sound: "The typical route for a CS grad is a job as a software engineer at SAP". Get it? As a startup founder let me just say that NO degree prepares you for a startup. I guess you are right on one thing, the common denominator: "People with experience" - with my caveat of: regardless of your background. Your comment comes acro…

I don't get your point. Is there a problem with fresh CS grads expecting to end up in strategic roles at startups? If not, then I'm not seeing why the analogy is relevant.

From what I've seen, fresh developer grads expect to take entry-level positions. Fresh MBA grads generally don't; they expect to be listened to as high-level advisors or managers. That is not an unreasonable expectation, in that their programs train them for that.

Another way to look at it: It's well-known that large-company execs often adapt poorly to working at startups, partly because they are used to having other people around to do the actual work. An MBA trains people for that sort of large-company position, so it's unsurprising that people fresh out of MBA programs would have the same issues.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#66

Post by antr »

wpietri wrote: post #65
antr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles." How does this sound: "The typical route for a CS grad is a job as a software engineer at SAP". Get it? As a startup founder let me just say that NO degree prepares you for a startup. I guess you are right on one thing, the common denominator: "People with experience" - with my caveat of: regardless of your background. Your comment comes acro…

I don't get your point. Is there a problem with fresh CS grads expecting to end up in strategic roles at startups? If not, then I'm not seeing why the analogy is relevant. From what I've seen, fresh developer grads expect to take entry-level positions. Fresh MBA grads generally don't; they expect to be listened to as high-level advisors or managers. That is not an unreasonable expectation, in that their programs trai…

Lets agree to disagree. Clearly your experience and views differ from mine. I'll give up and believe that all MBAs love the red carpet, join startups simply to "strategize" in their $900 chairs, and sing the Kumbaya while developers do the grunt work. This back and forth is a total waste of everyone's time.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#67

Post by johnrgrace »

Thank god I got the MSc in Finance instead of the MBA when I didn't get that PHD in finance.

I would say Most people get MBA's in order to change their job. Either they want a promotion or want to switch industries and MBA programs are great for doing that. For a startup that just isn't the profile of person you're looking for.

In that heap of MBA's there are some people I'd call business nerds. They love to learn about how business works and are cluefull if you talk with them. Hire a business nerd if you can find one.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#68

Post by jh3 »

andrewcooke wrote: post #40
jh3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comments in this thread are oozing the same arrogance.

i'm sorry i offended you. if you can explain, please, what was so arrogant about my own post i will try to correct it in future.

Well, it was a generalization but you did not offend me. I guess I am no better than the comments that may have actually annoyed me, huh?

No need to apologize to me, by the way.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#69

Post by wpietri »

antr wrote: post #66
wpietri wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get your point. Is there a problem with fresh CS grads expecting to end up in strategic roles at startups? If not, then I'm not seeing why the analogy is relevant. From what I've seen, fresh developer grads expect to take entry-level positions. Fresh MBA grads generally don't; they expect to be listened to as high-level advisors or managers. That is not an unreasonable expectation, in that their programs trai…

Lets agree to disagree. Clearly your experience and views differ from mine. I'll give up and believe that all MBAs love the red carpet, join startups simply to "strategize" in their $900 chairs, and sing the Kumbaya while developers do the grunt work. This back and forth is a total waste of everyone's time.

A sarcastic, straw-man flounce is definitely a waste of time. The "agree to disagree thing" only works if you do it graciously.

Re: Why we have never hired an MBA

#70

Post by wpietri »

hnriot wrote: post #61
MattRob wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, it's not an auto-reject, it's an early warning mechanism. I see the relationship between MBAs and cluelessness as one of correlation not causation.

If you find a correlation between MBA and cluelessness then I would either doubt your sample size or your methods. Be very very careful in any kind of statistical fashion to allow anecdotal evidence to cloud your opinion. People who think there's a correlation with MBA's and cluelessness are themselves, just as clueless.

He's not saying MBAs are generally clueless. He's saying that fresh MBA grads are clueless about startups, which is something they haven't been trained for.
Post reply on HN