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An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

openttd.org

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Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#61

Post by starkparker »

zer00eyz wrote: post #56
dryarzeg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true to some extent. However, let me ask you one simple question: how would you try to search for something if you are not aware of it's existence? In other words, how people that are not aware of existence of open-source projects (such as OpenTTD) are supposed to discover them if they're not searching for them on purpose (which is impossible given that they have no clue about their existence)? Of course ther…

> In other words, how people that are not aware of existence of open-source projects (such as OpenTTD) are supposed to discover them if they're not searching for them on purpose (which is impossible given that they have no clue about their existence)? This question tickles me. In the before time, something would be so good you were compelled to tell someone about it. Sriracha, Costco are brands you likely know that d…

probably a little telling that you don't seem to know the name of the sriracha brand you're referring to that does zero-dollar advertising

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#62

Post by skydhash »

itsdesmond wrote: post #49
lstodd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open internet is dead only to those that don't take the effort to discover. Otherwise it's still as open as it always was. Since there was an internet to speak of, there always were and still are vast amounts of people unaware of stuff that exists, limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire.

This is as good an argument as saying that Americans with unhealthy diets bear sole responsibility, ignoring the massive corporate efforts to convince them of the healthfulness of highly processed foods. While, obviously, individuals have ultimate responsibility for their actions, ignoring the concerted efforts to influence those actions through psychology, marketing/ads, paid “experts”, paid influencers and celebrit…

> It is obviously more difficult for an individual to engage with the open web than it ever has been (for those with access at all).

It’s very easy. If you’re a producer, you maintain a separate presence outside the walled platforms. If you’re a consumer, you look outside the walled platform for content.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#63

Post by devnotes77 »

legitster wrote: post #15

As a sidenote, this whole situation implies just how important platforms are. Nothing about OpenTTD has changed. You can literally just go download it off their website for free - same as it was 20 years ago. And you can add it to your Steam library just fine. It's only been on the Steam store for 5 of those years. But the open internet is dead now and just being "de-merchandised" from a platform feels like being rel…

[dead]

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#64

Post by iso1631 »

paxys wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atari own all the IP and copyright. While OpenTTD is open source, it's basis is really that the original game was reverse-engineered, originally using the original assets, and then rebuilt. Also all the map data etc is owned by Atari, so you need to have a 'genuine' copy to access all the levels etc.

What copyright? OpenTTD doesn't copy any code or assets from the original game. It is a ground-up rewrite. There is no copyright violation.

If I were to create a new game from the ground up, with new artistic assets, and not an LLM in sight, with the characters of Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader playing around on the Millenium Falcon, I would be breaching copyright.

I'm not sure if look and feel of a game like Transport Tycoon can be copyrighted, but I wouldn't like to be against it.

(I remember buying Transport Tycoon from I think Beatles, in Altrincham. I clearly remember riding on the front seat of the bus upstairs on my way to Flixton back in 1994 reading the manual)

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#65

Post by bjt »

anthk wrote: post #52
Closi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also even if it is a ground up rewrite, the look and feel still matters. Try creating a 1:1 dupe of a Hermes bag or a Rolex and see how their legal team reacts (even if you call it an OpenBirk)

[flagged]

The fact that these exist does not mean that they're immune from legal challenge. If the original creators wanted to sue, there are all kinds of claims that would have a decent shot in court (e.g. trademark, trade dress, design patents) besides "you copied our copyrighted source code." The clones exist more because people are being cool about it, and because there's not a strong economic incentive to challenge them. Those things can change at any time.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#66

Post by whstl »

starkparker wrote: post #61
zer00eyz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, how people that are not aware of existence of open-source projects (such as OpenTTD) are supposed to discover them if they're not searching for them on purpose (which is impossible given that they have no clue about their existence)? This question tickles me. In the before time, something would be so good you were compelled to tell someone about it. Sriracha, Costco are brands you likely know that d…

probably a little telling that you don't seem to know the name of the sriracha brand you're referring to that does zero-dollar advertising

Does it matter? People just look for the bottle with a rooster anyway.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#67

Post by anthk »

Closi wrote: post #30
jorl17 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that, while it is a rewrite, it was done so through disassembling the original game, not via a clean room implementation. I find this particularly relevant given that the original was written (mostly) in assembly too.

Also even if it is a ground up rewrite, the look and feel still matters. Try creating a 1:1 dupe of a Hermes bag or a Rolex and see how their legal team reacts (even if you call it an OpenBirk)

- OpenArena

- Chip's Challange and custom levels pack

- Freedoom+Blasmepher for Doom/Heretic

- LibreQuake

- Supertux2

- Oolite

- Kgoldminner/XScavenger with level sets

- Frozen Bubble

- Any X11/console/9front sokoban clone. Everyone reuses the same level set over and over.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#68

Post by iso1631 »

anthk wrote: post #55
designerarvid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reproducing someone’s intellectual property and publishing it is exactly what constitutes a copyright violation. You can retype someone’s book with your keyboard, it’s still not yours.

Learn something new, dear GenZers: https://osgameclones.com/ Maybe you all realize how much brainwashed from corporations yall actually are.

Look and Feel in computers and how it interacts with copyright is hardly something new

https://jolt.law.harvard.edu/assets/articlePDFs/v03/03HarvJL...

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#69

Post by anthk »

bjt wrote: post #65
anthk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The fact that these exist does not mean that they're immune from legal challenge. If the original creators wanted to sue, there are all kinds of claims that would have a decent shot in court (e.g. trademark, trade dress, design patents) besides "you copied our copyrighted source code." The clones exist more because people are being cool about it, and because there's not a strong economic incentive to challenge them.…

Sony vs Bleem. They already lost this case in court.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#70

Post by aeturnum »

I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release and I hope that anyone who's upset about it reflects on why they are upset.
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