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We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

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Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#61

Post by blell »

rockyj wrote: post #57
blell wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU.

What plan? I do not know what reality people live in. I am an Indian myself, migrated 12 years ago. There are around currently 20000 students from India in Germany. I have talked to a dozen of them in my neighborhood, only 1 in 10 can even find a job post graduation in current market Proof - https://youtu.be/2x-aQy730Ew?si=y6hKNp9G6TOI_mtT

That means there should be 0 of them in Germany.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#62

Post by rockyj »

blell wrote: post #61
rockyj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What plan? I do not know what reality people live in. I am an Indian myself, migrated 12 years ago. There are around currently 20000 students from India in Germany. I have talked to a dozen of them in my neighborhood, only 1 in 10 can even find a job post graduation in current market Proof - https://youtu.be/2x-aQy730Ew?si=y6hKNp9G6TOI_mtT

That means there should be 0 of them in Germany.

Not sure of where you are coming from. But thousands come in and go every year. A few hundred are able to land a job after graduation / post-graduation (in Germany). Zero is not theoretically possible with so many universities looking for international students.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#63

Post by yobbo »

deng wrote: post #37
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

It's the median salary: 50% of people earn more than 62.4k. 10% earn more than 80k. It's still low compared to the US, but what isn't? For this, you get proper health and unemployment insurance, usually 30 days of paid vacation, up to 6 weeks of sick leave with full salary, up to 10 days to take care of sick children with full salary, paternal leave, the right to work part-time if desired, and so on. I don't know whe…

On page 41 you can find average, median, and top10 salaries for Germany by experience levels. Junior/regular/senior medians are 52.5k/60k/67.5k.

Average is 62.4k.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#64

Post by yobbo »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #58
rockyj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you partly. The benefits are great & fairly above international norms. But I do not agree with the "firing protection" anymore. Last year alone I saw thousands let go in Berlin in fairly large organizations like neobanks for example. I myself saw my previous employer let go of 30% of the staff over the year. A simple Google search of - "Berlin IT firings 2025" will give you a picture.

That’s interesting, how does hard-to-fire law combine with a company that needs to have layoffs?

Hard-to-fire typically means only specific and provable reasons are valid.

"Shrinking the org" is a valid reason.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#65

Post by stockresearcher »

j7ake wrote: post #20
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #2

I don't trust these numbers for Germany. Why? Have a look at all the Tarifunternehmen salaries. 80k-90k€ is pretty much a standard salary you can reach after 5 years (with maybe changing your position once within the same company). Feels like their dataset has significant sampling gap in some very big industries here.

It doesn’t matter honestly, 65k versus 80k after 42% tax on the extra 15k is about 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.

> 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.

Put 800 euro a month into an investment account and you’re a millionaire by age 50.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#66

Post by perelin »

rockyj wrote: post #62
blell wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means there should be 0 of them in Germany.

Not sure of where you are coming from. But thousands come in and go every year. A few hundred are able to land a job after graduation / post-graduation (in Germany). Zero is not theoretically possible with so many universities looking for international students.

Dont bother, that was a borderline right-wing comment. Dont need to guess which political party the fella is voting for.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#67

Post by surgical_fire »

blell wrote: post #61
rockyj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What plan? I do not know what reality people live in. I am an Indian myself, migrated 12 years ago. There are around currently 20000 students from India in Germany. I have talked to a dozen of them in my neighborhood, only 1 in 10 can even find a job post graduation in current market Proof - https://youtu.be/2x-aQy730Ew?si=y6hKNp9G6TOI_mtT

That means there should be 0 of them in Germany.

Tip: The parent comment reads more accurately if you play Erika in the background.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#68

Post by Ylpertnodi »

menaerus wrote: post #60
mixmastamyk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting, how does hard-to-fire law combine with a company that needs to have layoffs?

I guess it works for companies which are not part of the union?

"The union" should be "a union", of which, companies are rarely a part of ie zero. Their workforce may be a member of a union, some equals in grade may belong to different unions.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#69

Post by etyhhgfff »

stockresearcher wrote: post #65
j7ake wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter honestly, 65k versus 80k after 42% tax on the extra 15k is about 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.

> 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different. Put 800 euro a month into an investment account and you’re a millionaire by age 50.

Compound interest is a think but we wont be millionaires by age 50, especially in modern times where people study long and start working in their 30s.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#70

Post by menaerus »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #68
menaerus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it works for companies which are not part of the union?

"The union" should be "a union", of which, companies are rarely a part of ie zero. Their workforce may be a member of a union, some equals in grade may belong to different unions.

Thank you for your generous correction but you could rather address the point I was trying to make.
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