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UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

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Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#61

Post by pfisherman »

uxhacker wrote: post #23

The crazy thing is that you don’t need to show an ID to stay at hotel in the uk, but you will need one to use the internet.

Hotels are not platforms. No network effects at play. The idea of ban is to push teen DAUs below the critical mass necessary for self sustaining retention and growth.

Sure teens will still figure out a way to access when they really want to, but they won’t be be the same level of peer pressure.

I feel like this is the strongest argument in favor of the bans. I am not sure it will be effective or is the most effective way to go about it. I am curious to see the data that comes out of Australia in a few years.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#62

Post by jimnotgym »

aranw wrote: post #29
jimnotgym wrote: post #9

Just for clarification. House of Lords amendments do not have to be accepted by the House of Commons and may not make it into law. If you do not agree with an amendment then write to your MP, write to the ministers concerned. If you do not tell them your concerns they will not know. You can ask for an appointment with your MP. You can ask for an appointment with ministers. Better still you can form an advocacy group…

I've written to my MP several times about this. Each response just repeats the same talking points about safety whilst completely missing the underlying technical issues and consequences.

There are lots of replies stating that their MP gave them a cookie cutter response, so it is a waste of time.

I can tell you that isn't entirely true. When they get a lot of messages about the same thing, or better still you meet them in person, they may keep giving you the 'party line response', but they will also be feeding back that there is discontent to the whips.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#64

Post by c0n5pir4cy »

wlkr wrote: post #24

I'm very interested to see how some VPN providers react to this. For a zero logs VPN provider, if such a thing can really exist, how big of a problem is this? Presumably many customers pay with a debit/credit card already so there's some PII on file? Usage remains the same? Surely savvy people can just use their existing VPN to buy a VPN from outside the UK. Of course, we're sliding quite rapidly down that slippery s…

I believe a whole host of VPN providers have no real need to comply with this amendment if it passes the Commons.

The providers are structured in a way that makes forcing compliance difficult and have built their whole business model around this. NordVPN is registered in Panama for example and Mullvad lets you send cash in the mail and doesn't store any user details (even a hashed email).

It'll be interesting to see how & who reacts if it does pass.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#65

Post by PurpleRamen »

pjc50 wrote: post #34

Same article also says the bill includes a ban on social media for users under 16, like Australia. Pretty dramatic change. Meanwhile the government and official accounts continue to use X even as they're trying to ban it. Mixed messaging. Lead proponent of the VPN ban: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nash,_Baron_Nash ; he's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Policy_Studies again, the dead hand of Thatcherism…

I'm pretty sure, their target-groups are usually not under 16s. What do they mix up here?

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#66

Post by bjackman »

ed_blackburn wrote: post #58

I think we need to accept that age verification makes the internet safer. What we cannot accept is age verification's use as a mechanism to pry too far into peoples lives. When we can separate age verification from who am I, most people will be happier. What's tricky is who validates age? Your ISP? Your government? Your OS? A thirty party? Who accredits third-parties, and can you trust them? I'm convinced there's a w…

I don't think it's possible? You could imagine some sort of certificate scheme where the govt issues a thing that says to a 3rd party "we certify this person is 18 but in a way that doesn't reveal who they are". You could also implement that in a way where, even if the 3rd party reports the details of an authorisation to the govt, the govt can't say who was involved in that auth.

But in the latter case, the system is wildly open to abuse coz nobody can detect if every teenager in the country is using Auth Georg's cert. The only way for that to be possible is if the tokens let you psuedonymise Georg at which point it's no longer private.

The answer is to leave this shit to parents. It's not the government's job. It's not the government's business.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#67

Post by vidarh »

vorticalbox wrote: post #8
embedding-shape wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you're unable to read, I understand reaching such conclusion :) But no, this is about platforms/services: > Amendment 92 (“Action to Prohibit the Provision of VPN Services to Children in the United Kingdom”) requires VPNs that are “offered or marketed to persons in the United Kingdom” or “provided to a significant number of persons” to implement age assurance for UK users.

it also said to have "different ages for different services" so the fact you have a debit/credit card to pay is more than enough to prove you at least 16. this will be interesting to watch i just wish i weren't caught in the net.

There are debit cards in the UK marketed for down to 6 years old. Granted the accounts are linked to a parent.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#68

Post by callamdelaney »

pjc50 wrote: post #34

Same article also says the bill includes a ban on social media for users under 16, like Australia. Pretty dramatic change. Meanwhile the government and official accounts continue to use X even as they're trying to ban it. Mixed messaging. Lead proponent of the VPN ban: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nash,_Baron_Nash ; he's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Policy_Studies again, the dead hand of Thatcherism…

Should be a smartphone ban, which would actually be enforceable.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#69

Post by pjc50 »

pnut wrote: post #60
throw__away7391 wrote: post #53

Every government in the world right now wants to get their hands on the controls and put their thumb on the scales here. Modern social media has proven to be effectively remote control for their citizens, nothing like this kind of power has never existed before and is absolutely irresistible to politicians. Expect them all to be laser focused on this until they're able to seize complete control, no matter how long it…

Counterpoint - Governments are attempting to wrest political control away from coordinated global corporate fascists.

Yes and no - you need to check whether each individual politician, not just party, is taking money from said global corporates, because they have a lot of money and UK politicians are cheap.

Not to mention the opaque mess that's Reform UK financing.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#70

Post by giacomoforte »

Are there any remaining western countries with strong free speech protections?

UK and Germany weren't ever good in this department but now worst than ever.

US supposedly good but I wouldn't risk it in practice.

Australia I hear is also quite bad.

Canada and NZ I don't know.

I expect Denmark and Sweden to have somewhat weak free speech laws too.

Norway and Finland I expect to be good.

France I expect to be just slightly better than Germany.

Netherlands and Switzerland, I have no idea.

Czech Republic I think has strong protections.

Italy and Spain and Ireland, I heard mixed reports about.

Poland, Greece, Slovenia, Portugal and other unnamed countries I don't know at all.

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