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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

electrek.co

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#61

Post by nikcub »

mdavid626 wrote: post #22
Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

Resale value is starting to ward some people off.

You can buy 1-2 year old used Teslas and BYD's in Australia for ~30% below retail.

Meanwhile Toyota hybrids not just retain their value but there have been moments where used RAV4's are listed above retail because the waitlist for new was so long.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#62

Post by pipo234 »

Lammy wrote: post #37
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

> I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. I 1000% agree with this, in fact I love the way it looks, like something out of a SEGA Saturn game. But I would never buy one for the same reasons I would never buy any Tesla, or in fact any EV, or any post-2014 car at all.…

> I guess the Prius line was a popular “statement car” of the pre-Tesla era, though, like how Brian drives one on Family Guy, or the “Smug Alert” episode of South Park, but it was never that for me.

... So you admit to falling for Toyota product placement in cartoons.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#63

Post by jandrese »

loeg wrote: post #45
godzillabrennus wrote: post #18

I wanted an F-150 Lightning when it launched. Demand was high enough that I was told I'd have to pay over retail. I did not buy an F-150 Lightning and bought an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. The depreciation of electric vehicles has made me appreciate those circumstances more and more.

> The depreciation of electric vehicles has made me appreciate those circumstances more and more. The depreciation for most EVs isn't all that different from that of new ICE vehicles. For a while, MSRPs were artificially inflated by the EV tax credit, which could give artificially worse depreciation appearance .

So now that the tax credits are gone we should expect to see the sticker prices on new EVs to drop right? Right? Any day now?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#64

Post by idontwantthis »

subpixel wrote: post #49
Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

I disagree. I really want a Lightning but live in a very rural place, weekend in an even more rural place, and need to pull a trailer pretty often. I already have a plug-in hybrid that gets 40+ miles/charge and have opined all over the internet that the perfect car is one that gets 100+ miles/charge before firing any gas engine. It sounds like the next Lightning will give me that though I don’t put much stock in thei…

I don’t get plug in hybrids. All other engine types save you more money compared to the next less efficient alternative the more you use them, but plugins get closer to the less efficient alternative (regular hybrid) the more you use them. Add in the approximately 25% price hike over the hybrid version when there is one and it makes no sense to me.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#65

Post by fullstop »

loeg wrote: post #40
ceejayoz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for illustrating the point.

They have worse prices (higher) and worse range (lower, particularly for towing). These aren't misconceptions. (My only car is an EV that I'm happy with. But lying about EVs doesn't benefit advocates.)

Obviously this is slanted by tax credits, but the EV that I have shares a name with the existing gas model and was less expensive.

EVs aren't for everything, but mine fits my use case perfectly.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#66

Post by ceejayoz »

loeg wrote: post #40
ceejayoz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for illustrating the point.

They have worse prices (higher) and worse range (lower, particularly for towing). These aren't misconceptions. (My only car is an EV that I'm happy with. But lying about EVs doesn't benefit advocates.)

> They have worse prices (higher)

Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity?

> worse range (lower, particularly for towing)

Towing reduces a gas powered car’s range, too.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#67

Post by film42 »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #18

I wanted an F-150 Lightning when it launched. Demand was high enough that I was told I'd have to pay over retail. I did not buy an F-150 Lightning and bought an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. The depreciation of electric vehicles has made me appreciate those circumstances more and more.

Same here. I was told it would take a at least year on the waitlist. A month later I had 2 friends offer me their spot. They weren't impressed with the truck after a few reviews came out showing bad towing performance. I opted to buy a used ICE truck instead and have zero regrets.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#69

Post by shortstuffsushi »

everdrive wrote: post #31
catigula wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one I don't think this is actually true, most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.

Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop fr…

> There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian?

You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium and utilitarian are reaching for opposite goals.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#70

Post by barbazoo »

b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #58
a4isms wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility A working truck should be max utility. Around the core market of "working trucks," there are various wannabe truck products that do not have to be max utility. For example, a Subaru Brat or a Hyundai Santa Fe. Niche products compared to an F-150, but they had/have their fans. I personally can't stand the design, but the idea of an impractical "halo vehicle" that appeals to…

A *working* truck should be max utility. All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive.

Tragedy of the commons.
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