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Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

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Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#61

Post by pixl97 »

oblio wrote: post #55
zzzeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not really. Here's their own product clarifying: Based on the terms, Section 3, subsection 2 prohibits using Claude/Anthropic's Services: "To develop any products or services that compete with our Services, including to develop or train any artificial intelligence or machine learning algorithms or models or resell the Services." Clarification: This restriction is specifically about competitive use - you cannot use Cl…

LOL, that's so much worse than I imagined. I know we want to turn everything into a rental economy aka the financialization of everything, but this is just super silly. I hope we're 2-3 years away, at most, from fully open source and open weights models that can run on hardware you can buy with $2000 and that can complete most things Opus 4.5 can do today, even if slower or that needs a bit more handholding.

OpenAI, a while back said their was no moat. You'll see these AI companies panic more desperately as they all realize it's true.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#62

Post by oblio »

pixl97 wrote: post #61
oblio wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, that's so much worse than I imagined. I know we want to turn everything into a rental economy aka the financialization of everything, but this is just super silly. I hope we're 2-3 years away, at most, from fully open source and open weights models that can run on hardware you can buy with $2000 and that can complete most things Opus 4.5 can do today, even if slower or that needs a bit more handholding.

OpenAI, a while back said their was no moat. You'll see these AI companies panic more desperately as they all realize it's true.

That's different, though. If 20 other companies can host these models, you still have to trust them. The end result should be cheap hardware that's good enough to large a solid, mature LLM that can code comparably to a fast junior dev.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#63

Post by arjie »

pton_xd wrote: post #44

As long as I have a Claude subscription, why do they care what harness I use to access their very profitable token inference business?

Demand-aggregation allows the aggregator to extract the majority of the value. ChatGPT the app has the biggest presence, and therefore model improvements in Claude will only take you so far. Everyone is terrified of that. Cursor et al. have already demonstrated to model providers that it is possible to become commoditized. Therefore, almost all providers are seeking to push themselves closer to the user.

This kind of thing is pretty standard. Nobody wants to be a vendor on someone else's platform. Anthropic would likely not complain too much about you using z.ai in Claude Code. They would prefer that. They would prefer you use gpt-5.2-high in Claude Code. They would prefer you use llama-4-maverick in Claude Code.

Because regardless of how profitable inference is, if you're not the closest to the user, you're going to lose sooner or later.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#64

Post by ffsm8 »

davorak wrote: post #26
zzzeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not really. Here's their own product clarifying: Based on the terms, Section 3, subsection 2 prohibits using Claude/Anthropic's Services: "To develop any products or services that compete with our Services, including to develop or train any artificial intelligence or machine learning algorithms or models or resell the Services." Clarification: This restriction is specifically about competitive use - you cannot use Cl…

> This restriction is specifically about competitive use - you cannot use Claude to build products that compete with Anthropic's offerings. I am not a lawyer, regardless of the list of examples below(I have been told examples in contracts and TOS are a mixed bag for enforceability), this text says that if anthropic decides to make a product like yours you have to stop using Claude for that product. That is a pretty p…

It may or may not be enforceable in the court of law, but they'll definitely ban you if they notice you...

And I'm pretty sure ban evasion can become an issue in the court of law, even if the original TOS may not hold up

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#65

Post by airstrike »

ctoth wrote: post #11

I was all set to be pissed off, "you can't tell me what I can make with your product once you've sold it to me!" but no... This outrage bait hinges on the definition of "use" You can use Claude Code to write code to make a competitor for Claude Code. What you cannot do is reverse engineer the way the Claude Code harness uses the API to build your own version that taps into stuff like the max plan. Which? makes sense?…

The trick is to use Codex to write a Claude Code clone, Claude Code to write an Antigravity clone, and Antigravity to write a Codex clone.

Good luck catching me, I'm behind 7 proxies.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#66

Post by pixl97 »

llmslave3 wrote: post #36

I find it slightly ironic that Anthropic benefits from ignoring intellectual property but then tries to enforce it on their competitors. How would they even detect that you used CC on a competitor? There's surely no ethical reason to not do it, it seems unenforceable.

This is the modus operandi of every AI company so far.

OpenAI hoovered up everything they could to train their model with zero shits about IP law. But the moment other models learned from theirs they started throwing tantrums.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#67

Post by theshrike79 »

d4rkp4ttern wrote: post #50

This message from the Zed discord (from a zed staffer) puts it clearly, I think: “….you can use Claude code in Zed but you can’t hijack the rate limits to do other ai stuff in zed.” This was a response to my asking whether we can use the Claude Max subscription for the awesome inline assistant (Ctl+Enter in the editor buffer) without having to pay for yet another metered API. The answer is no, the above was a respons…

Art (prose, images, videos) is very different from code when discussing AI Agents.

Code can be objectively checked with automated tools to be correct/incorrect.

Art is always subjective.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#68

Post by falloutx »

oblio wrote: post #51
fgonzag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, honestly this is a bad move on anthropic's part. I don't think their moat is as big as they think it is. They are competing against opencode + ACP + every other model out there, and there are quite a few good ones (even open weight ones). Opus might be currently the best model out there, and CC might be the best tool out of the commercial alternatives, but once someone switches to open code + multiple model pro…

> I went from max 20x and chatgpt pro to Claude pro and chat gpt plus + open router providers, and I have now cancelled Claude pro and gpt plus, keeping only Gemini pro (super cheap) and using open router models + a local ai workstation I built using minimax m2.1 and glam 4.7. I use Gemini as the planner and my local models as the churners. Works great, the local models might not be as good as opus 4.5 or sonnet 4.7,…

On opencode you can use models which are free for unlimited use and you can pick models which only cost like $15 a month for unlimited use.

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#69

Post by walterbell »

oblio wrote: post #55
zzzeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not really. Here's their own product clarifying: Based on the terms, Section 3, subsection 2 prohibits using Claude/Anthropic's Services: "To develop any products or services that compete with our Services, including to develop or train any artificial intelligence or machine learning algorithms or models or resell the Services." Clarification: This restriction is specifically about competitive use - you cannot use Cl…

LOL, that's so much worse than I imagined. I know we want to turn everything into a rental economy aka the financialization of everything, but this is just super silly. I hope we're 2-3 years away, at most, from fully open source and open weights models that can run on hardware you can buy with $2000 and that can complete most things Opus 4.5 can do today, even if slower or that needs a bit more handholding.

> hardware you can buy with $2000

Including how much RAM?

Re: Anthropic: Developing a Claude Code competitor using Claude Code is banned

#70

Post by wilg »

Can anyone read? The text doesn't mention Claude Code or anything like it at all.

I swear to god everyone is spoiling for a fight because they're bored. All these AI companies have this language to try to prevent people from "distilling" their model into other models. They probably wrote this before even making Claude Code.

Worst case scenario they cancel your account if they really want to, but almost certainly they'll just tweak the language once people point it out.

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