Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 213 posts

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#61

Post by kstrauser »

dmitrygr wrote: post #40
throwfaraway135 wrote: post #34

Depending on the crime, most people would agree that face/gait recognition is warranted, for example in case of murder or rape. The difference here is that some people consider "illegal immigration" to be more like a misdemeanor, others consider it to be something much more serious.

> " others consider " laws are knowable. readable. Opinion on them does NOT matter.

We have a court system specifically meant to interpret the law, and a tiered appeals process for when one of the courtroom parties disagrees with that court’s interpretation.

Quick, does the First Amendment allow the government to place any restrictions on speech? The words are right there for the reading and knowing, so that should be a simple question, surely?

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#62

Post by wiether »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #25
rootsudo wrote: post #7

It’s not just facial it’s also gait recognition too.

Mostly gait probably. I wonder if there are any hacker techniques to scramble gait, like putting wooden planks or plastic parts inside clothes

IIRC that's exactly what a character did in either Person of Interest or Mr. Robot

(I have a very hard time to distinguish both in my memory since they were so similar in their themes)

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#63

Post by mirzap »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #58
mirzap wrote: post #45

We like to think surveillance is something you can turn on for one problem and turn off afterward. In practice, that never happens. Once the machinery is in place, it stays and looks for new work. Tools justified today by "illegal immigration" won’t stop there. They drift into credit scoring, health insurance pricing, hiring and firing decisions, school admissions, housing access, travel permissions, banking, welfare…

There is a gradual chilling effect of self-censorship to mass surveillance and loss of anonymity. When you know you are being watched, you change your behavior. You don't visit the "wrong" protest, you don't meet with the "controversial" whistleblower, and you don't seek out the "unpopular" doctor. Total surveillance creates a "soft" totalitarianism where citizens police their own movements to avoid falling into a "h…

Yup, I agree. And this is why I think mass surveillance isn’t just another technology to regulate. The chilling effect isn’t misuse; it’s the default: continuous, opaque observation changes behavior by itself. Because it’s centralized and unavoidable, people self-censor and conform; you don’t need arrests once everyone assumes they’re being scored.

We don’t yet have long-run examples of fully algorithmic surveillance societies, so the outcome isn’t certain. But if these dynamics scale, the risk is trading experimentation for legibility. Problems get hidden, metrics look clean, and warning signals vanish. When real stress hits, responses are late and blunt - overcorrection, cascading failures, accelerated exit. Stability holds until it doesn’t.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#64

Post by lovich »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #37
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

> When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" [1]. Beijing showed the way. We followed their path. Both are at fault. [1] https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....

> Beijing showed the way. We followed their path.

lol, just like China invented social credit scores which are for social control and definitely not like US credit scores which are just good business sense

Edit: to be clear I am saying this from a US centric viewpoint. China is catching up but they’ve been behind us for over a century tech wise and the US has been really good at pioneering new forms of injustice. I’m laughing at the idea that we were trailing behind them on learning new for handling their population

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#65

Post by JumpCrisscross »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not just facial it’s also gait recognition too Source? Where would they get the fingerprints from?

Hypothetically speaking couldn't you collect it from any security camera in an area where you have positive ID on people? Airport security comes to mind. With all the trade in personal data in the US I assume it's only a matter of time before places like grocery stores start selling it. Why stop at just gait though? Geometric fingerprinting of various body parts is also possible. Palm geometry readers have been commo…

> couldn't you collect it from any security camera in an area where you have positive ID on people? Airport security comes to mind

Going out on a limb and guessing illegal migrants aren’t going through airport security.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#66

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lovich wrote: post #64
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" [1]. Beijing showed the way. We followed their path. Both are at fault. [1] https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....

> Beijing showed the way. We followed their path. lol, just like China invented social credit scores which are for social control and definitely not like US credit scores which are just good business sense Edit: to be clear I am saying this from a US centric viewpoint. China is catching up but they’ve been behind us for over a century tech wise and the US has been really good at pioneering new forms of injustice. I’m…

> like China invented social credit scores which are for social control and definitely not like US credit scores which are just good business sense

…yes. You don’t get your credit score dinged because you tweeted something naughty. You can be a felon with perfect credit.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#67

Post by mlrtime »

concinds wrote: post #27
kingkawn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

ICE and USBP are quite famously breaking many laws.

Unfortunately ICE has somewhat broad powers that allow them to enforce Federal laws that local LEOs cannot get away with.

This should be challenged in a court.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#68

Post by stevenjgarner »

mirzap wrote: post #63
stevenjgarner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a gradual chilling effect of self-censorship to mass surveillance and loss of anonymity. When you know you are being watched, you change your behavior. You don't visit the "wrong" protest, you don't meet with the "controversial" whistleblower, and you don't seek out the "unpopular" doctor. Total surveillance creates a "soft" totalitarianism where citizens police their own movements to avoid falling into a "h…

Yup, I agree. And this is why I think mass surveillance isn’t just another technology to regulate. The chilling effect isn’t misuse; it’s the default: continuous, opaque observation changes behavior by itself. Because it’s centralized and unavoidable, people self-censor and conform; you don’t need arrests once everyone assumes they’re being scored. We don’t yet have long-run examples of fully algorithmic surveillance…

I think especially heinous is the use of Zero-Knowledge (ZK) Proof technologies where a centralized attestation authority (e.g. government agency) verifies compliance, and the verifier (e.g. business needing to prove compliance) relies on the ZK cryptographic proof of compliance without revealing the individual. This revocable privacy can unmask the real identity in the case of asserted "suspicious" activity. This is the current direction of mainstream technology, and all it serves to accomplish is a normalization of loss of privacy and anonymity.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#69

Post by lovich »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #66
lovich wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Beijing showed the way. We followed their path. lol, just like China invented social credit scores which are for social control and definitely not like US credit scores which are just good business sense Edit: to be clear I am saying this from a US centric viewpoint. China is catching up but they’ve been behind us for over a century tech wise and the US has been really good at pioneering new forms of injustice. I’m…

> like China invented social credit scores which are for social control and definitely not like US credit scores which are just good business sense …yes. You don’t get your credit score dinged because you tweeted something naughty. You can be a felon with perfect credit.

Brah, some employers in the US check your credit score to make sure you are trustworthy enough.

Your credit score can be checked in multiple other situations that have nothing to do with you taking on debt, but still somehow your debt factors into the decision.

If you think there is no social control as part of this system, then you are just blind to the system you grew up in

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#70

Post by fiyec30375 »

FuturisticLover wrote: post #22
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

The US literary attacked a country and captured its leader. They always have a double standard.

Literary? Haha
Post reply on HN