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ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

wsj.com

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Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#21

Post by watwut »

servo_sausage wrote: post #18
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

ICE does not care about "lawful arrests". Like common, that is not their thing.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#22

Post by FuturisticLover »

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

The US literary attacked a country and captured its leader. They always have a double standard.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#23

Post by _delirium »

otterley wrote: post #10
tartoran wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still not fully supported by law. It is becoming normalized indeed, especially by the current admin. Let's hope this is not going to become widely used or that it doesn't stay permanently, eg. it gets at least restricted to some type of crime by future administrations.

Not supported by law where? I’m unaware of any legal proscription of this practice in the USA, and the Journal article makes no such claims, either. (IAAL but this is not my primary field of expertise, and this is not legal advice.)

There are many unresolved gray areas around what exactly the 4th amendment permits in the way of what United States v. Knotts called "dragnet-type law enforcement practices". Knotts suggested they might not be permitted, even if they were made up of permissible individual parts, but didn't elaborate. More recent case law has held, for example, that cell phone companies turning over large quantities of records is a 4th amendment search requiring a warrant, even if they do it voluntarily (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States). Most other types of dragnets haven't been litigated enough to have solid caselaw on their boundaries afaik.

I don't know if it's likely a court will do anything about this particular program, but from what I've read I don't think 4th amendment scholars think this area is at all settled.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#24

Post by vkou »

servo_sausage wrote: post #18
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

> is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest

That is not the system that the US has had since 2025, and the executive has made it very clear that it is not the system that it wants the US to have.

Meanwhile, SCOTUS has made it very clear that nothing this executive does will have any consequences for it.

Rule of law is a fairy tale when ICE can snag anyone they want off the street and throw them into some CECOT torture pit.

Rule of law is a fairy tale when the executive disregards direct judicial orders.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#26

Post by heavyset_go »

servo_sausage wrote: post #18
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

Democracy is when you get abducted and sent to CECOT because some shitty AI face app said so

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#27

Post by concinds »

kingkawn wrote: post #20
servo_sausage wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

ICE and USBP are quite famously breaking many laws.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#28

Post by lostlogin »

kingkawn wrote: post #20
servo_sausage wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

> In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

I’m not sure it is though, there are plenty of headlines about judicial orders being disregarded. This last few weeks it has been the required release of the Epstein papers, though that has been railroaded by a conveniently timed attack on a neighbour.

There are plenty of other examples.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#29

Post by oulipo2 »

servo_sausage wrote: post #18
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

That's a totally wrong way to think about it, akin to "I have nothing to hide so why not let the government look into all my communications"

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#30

Post by ileonichwiesz »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #25
rootsudo wrote: post #7

It’s not just facial it’s also gait recognition too.

Mostly gait probably. I wonder if there are any hacker techniques to scramble gait, like putting wooden planks or plastic parts inside clothes

I remember reading that early systems could be defeated entirely by putting a pebble in your shoe, but I’m sure they’ve improved a lot since.
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