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KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

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61–70 of 248 posts

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#61

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

> what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it

1. Security - Any program using X11 can read keystrokes, passwords, or the contents of any other window. Fixing this would break all existing X11 applications.

2. Performance - X11's client-server model doesn't work with hardware accelerated graphics, requiring hacks to get around. X11 is basically stuck with this legacy.

The ground-up re-design of X11 to fix those two issues is Wayland.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#62
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discord doesn't work properly with Wayland Is this specifically to do with screen sharing or streaming? I use it purely as a chat client under Wayland and it has generally worked fine. (Now that I think of it, I've had a few weird crashes, but nothing which made it unusable)

> a few weird crashes To OP's point, assuming it's limited to Wayland, this seems reasonable to call out as "doesn't work properly".

I think it might be more of a Discord problem. I've experienced "a few weird crashes" on Windows, Mac, and Wayland GNOME. Windows being the most problematic in general.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#63
post #51

Wayland is missing one thing still for me. Perhaps someone can tell me there is a way to do this: 1. ssh into a machine with a running session 2. start (something) that lets me remotely connect to it Right now I have two working solutions for X11 (x11vnc, freerdp-shadow) but zero for Wayland. I think this is intentional because the venn diagram of remote-access-tools and malware has a large intersection, but it's ver…

Isn't that wayvnc?

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can. KDE Wayland allows you to even set fractional scaling. I had 125% on one monitor and 100% on three others. all work like a chgarm

How did you arrive at 125%? What is the formula? Just eyeballing? I set DPI so that a 15pt font occupies 15pt physical space on screen. Not sure how to set DPI using fractional scaling.

The formula is DPI ÷ 96. 100% is 96 dpi, 125% is 120 dpi.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#65

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

X11 is not really fixable, architecturally. This wasn't some authority saying "X11 is over, stop working on it." It was the X11 developers and DE and WM developers who work directly with the protocol deciding that it's untenable to fix, and something new is actually the right call. That's the important thing that many people are missing: the X11 developers ARE the Wayland developers, and they actually have good reasons.

Nobody is stopping you from pulling together a group and working on all this free software, forging forth on Xorg, and forking or maintaining the DEs to work with X11 as long as you want to maintain it. I think the group of people who wants to do that will be quite small, because I've really only seen the sentiment from people who have never actually hacked on an X11 codebase and worked with the protocols themselves. You can want X11 to stay alive, but you can't really demand the people who don't want to work on it anymore to keep working on it.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#66

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

OSS is an intersection of commercial and hobbyist programmers and agendas. If youre a hobbyist you may prefer to spend time working on green field rather than the existing. This eventually culminates in some new stuff replacing the old. Not saying that is what happened here, but sometimes the answer is because the old one is just not fun to work on anymore.

Isn't Wayland funded by Red hat though? And Mir was funded by Canonical iirc

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#67
post #14

As a fvwm user, if Linux forces Wayland on me, I guess my 30 year use of Linux may be coming to an end. Oh well.

I find your comment a bit funny on multiple levels. "Linux" does not force anything on you right? It's the community that has by and large decided to move to maintaining other solutions. If you still want to use fvwm you can still run it on arch with x11 until x11 is not maintained and the kernel breaks it somehow

>"Linux" does not force anything on you right?

>It's the community that has by and large decided to move to maintaining other solutions. If you still want to use fvwm you can still run it on arch with x11 until x11 is not maintained and the kernel breaks it somehow

well you just framed it perfectly; it's still forced on the end-user regardless of whether or not you want to call it 'linux' or 'the community that controls and steers linux" .

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#68
post #61

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

> what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it 1. Security - Any program using X11 can read keystrokes, passwords, or the contents of any other window. Fixing this would break all existing X11 applications. 2. Performance - X11's client-server model doesn't work with hardware accelerated graphics, requiring hacks to get around. X11 is basically stuck with this legacy. The ground-up re-design of X11 to fix th…

> X11's client-server model doesn't work with hardware accelerated graphics

I really wish they would figure this out. It just feels like with Threadripper etc the time is perfect for a return of thin-clients/not-so-dummy terminals running X11-like applications over the network on a server. Especially for development where many of us are running under-powered laptops and could use the boost to compilation from a beefy machine.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#69
post #51

Wayland is missing one thing still for me. Perhaps someone can tell me there is a way to do this: 1. ssh into a machine with a running session 2. start (something) that lets me remotely connect to it Right now I have two working solutions for X11 (x11vnc, freerdp-shadow) but zero for Wayland. I think this is intentional because the venn diagram of remote-access-tools and malware has a large intersection, but it's ver…

There is VNC server for wayland like wayvnc.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#70
post #51

Wayland is missing one thing still for me. Perhaps someone can tell me there is a way to do this: 1. ssh into a machine with a running session 2. start (something) that lets me remotely connect to it Right now I have two working solutions for X11 (x11vnc, freerdp-shadow) but zero for Wayland. I think this is intentional because the venn diagram of remote-access-tools and malware has a large intersection, but it's ver…

RustDesk might do the job, but I haven't used it on Linux, so I can't tell you for sure.
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