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Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

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Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#61

Post by Hnrobert42 »

zephyrthenoble wrote: post #34
coder543 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 and VOCs, but what about PM2.5 and PM10? What about pollen? What about humidity control? Cracking a window is also costly, since it directly raises your heating and cooling bills. It's just an "invisible" cost that's easy for some people to ignore since it's hard to directly measure. An ERV pays for itself over time, so it's more a question of whether you can afford to just crack a window? Living in an apartment…

I live in the DC area and whenever I hear people say "just crack a window" I think, that brings in all of the pollen I'm allergic to in all seasons except winter, plus humidity and 95 f degree heat if it's the summer... I' be been looking into getting an ERV for a while.

The humidity and temperature are rough. Some months I can't open the window at all. This month has been pretty good though, huh? At least for the temperature and humidity.

I feel you about the pollen. I use a Blueair filter, and that keeps PM 2.5 and PM 10 in check.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#62

Post by crazygringo »

Etheryte wrote: post #8
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

This is advice that gets thrown around a lot, but it's missing the important bit of how to buy a meter that's both reasonably accurate and affordable. There are countless articles online showing how widely commonly sold meters vary in their readings. What's more, paying more often does not mean you'll get a more accurate reading. Sure, there's diminish returns and past a certain point it doesn't matter, but many mete…

The Awair Element is the best option for consumers who want something easy and relatively inexpensive.

Hackers may prefer other options.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#63

Post by ErikBjare »

coder543 wrote: post #33
azornathogron wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any modern home build likely has an ERV as part of the design Sounds very country dependent. I really doubt it's true here in the UK. But then, UK housing is just garbage all around unless you build something custom and put a lot of money and attention into it.

> Sounds very country dependent. Yes, I meant in the US. Apologies for not making that clearer. I don't think ERVs are uncommon in new construction outside the US, but I don't know as much about that.

They are common in new construction in the Nordics as well.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#64

Post by crazygringo »

coder543 wrote: post #13
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Outside air isn’t a panacea. There is often plenty of pollution right outside your window unless you live on an idyllic beachfront property. The humidity level outside is also rarely what you want in your home, whether it is too high or too low. Much better than cracking a window is the use of ERVs (energy recovery ventilators) and air filters on the incoming air. An ERV is a fairly simple device that exchanges air w…

If you have ERVs and filters then amazing. That's still outdoor air.

Yes you have to take into account running an air filter for PM2.5, closing the window while a truck is idling outside, running your humidifier or dehumidifier if you want.

But you need fresh air coming in somehow, at a certain rate. There's no way around it. Pollution in terms of VOC's, and CO2, is always higher indoors than outdoors, because things indoor generate it and don't remove it.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#65

Post by coder543 »

crazygringo wrote: post #64
coder543 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside air isn’t a panacea. There is often plenty of pollution right outside your window unless you live on an idyllic beachfront property. The humidity level outside is also rarely what you want in your home, whether it is too high or too low. Much better than cracking a window is the use of ERVs (energy recovery ventilators) and air filters on the incoming air. An ERV is a fairly simple device that exchanges air w…

If you have ERVs and filters then amazing. That's still outdoor air. Yes you have to take into account running an air filter for PM2.5, closing the window while a truck is idling outside, running your humidifier or dehumidifier if you want. But you need fresh air coming in somehow, at a certain rate. There's no way around it. Pollution in terms of VOC's, and CO2, is always higher indoors than outdoors, because things…

> Most people don't, and cracking a window is the only option.

It's not usually the only option. Installing an ERV is an option for the more than half of the population that owns their own property in the US, and an ERV will save money and pay for itself compared to opening your windows, in addition to the other benefits.

For renters, that's where the window units I mentioned come in, but there aren't as many options there as I would hope yet. If people don't ask for ERVs en masse, then apartments won't offer ERVs as a benefit to attract tenants unless they are legally required. Helping people understand that options exist seems like the first step to changing things. Ideally, even window-unit ERVs wouldn't be the only option for renters. Nearly 90% of households in the US have air conditioning now (which I believe includes rentals), because people asked for air conditioning and were willing to pay for it. ERVs have the added benefit that they don't just make things better, but they should pay for themselves in energy savings too. Maybe I'm too optimistic. I believe the 2024 IECC building codes make ERVs mandatory in new construction in climate zones 6 through 8, as one example of a change that is coming.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#66

Post by dpc_01234 »

Isn't this obvious? I don't know, maybe there are some details of this study that are are scientifically useful, but as a news it's pointless?

Yeah, make sure to get a lot of ventilation, but that doesn't require any study. Even without any any pollutants, indoor air will have a bad quality. And your body deals with minor amount of bad stuff just fine.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#67

Post by driverdan »

mitjam wrote: post #18

We have a basement garage in our house which has probably not seen a car since the 80s. It still smells of gasoline.

Concrete absorbs petroleum spills. You may need to identify areas that are stained and do a thorough cleaning to try to extract as much as possible.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#68

Post by andyp-kw »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #66

Isn't this obvious? I don't know, maybe there are some details of this study that are are scientifically useful, but as a news it's pointless? Yeah, make sure to get a lot of ventilation, but that doesn't require any study. Even without any any pollutants, indoor air will have a bad quality. And your body deals with minor amount of bad stuff just fine.

I think that the crowd on HN tend to enjoy learning, and thus wouldn’t find it pointless to read.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#70

Post by tylerflick »

musha68k wrote: post #52

I'm asking myself if building a DIY setup or buying something like Airthings Wave Plus will actually track these compounds at decent accuracy - and if anyone here has gone down this rabbit hole for family health? From what I've gathered, consumer devices hit acceptable accuracy for CO2/temp/humidity but PM2.5 is hit-or-miss, and VOC readings are more "relative change indicators" than absolute values.. DIY with Home A…

You can (within reason) calibrate these cheap CO2 easily with esphome and an outdoor air reference point overtime. I’ve had to do it for thermometers as well.
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