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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#61

Post by everdrive »

wvenable wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

That's modern technology; the worst of both worlds. The moralistic tyranny of the small town, but the crowded, violent, and lonely social environment of a major city.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#62

Post by themafia »

seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Of course individual people judge each other.

In this case a corporation is judging me and then offering those judgments as a service.

Quite a difference.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#63

Post by pavel_lishin »

arcane23 wrote: post #11
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

>But the same does not extend to a private bakery. Or a bar. I always found it strange that they are not allowed to discriminate based on gender/religion etc but they are allowed to discriminate based on if you are likable or not. As in they can refuse to serve you as long as they don't mention it's based on anything that's illegal to discriminate against.

Why is that strange?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#64

Post by Swenrekcah »

fmnxl wrote: post #45
seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Those "single authorities" you fear already exist in western countries, the mega-corporations that monopolise entire markets. The western system creates an illusion of choice, which those in power have found ways to manipulate. It has become merely a convenient tool for them to exploit the rest of the population, while the "free market" and "democracy" keep them oblivious to it. But whatever people like me say, it wi…

You describe a real problem and an attack vector on democracy that is being used. However you make it sound like everything is already lost when it certainly isn’t.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#65

Post by card_zero »

wvenable wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

Yeah, automation and information sharing prevents people slipping through the cracks, and that also prevents leniency, diversity, and reason.

I was musing over something, though. We have creeping Orwellian things like face recognition and the policing of chat histories. But some of this is private, as in, not done by the state. Even when done by the state, it isn't in most places to prop up the regime and prevent dissent. It's big brother mechanisms without a Big Brother. I speculate that it's genuinely motivated by preventing disorder, because (is this true?) over the last couple of decades people have got more disorderly in petty ways to do with thieving and harassing and scamming one another. Then the people don't like it, and so the people politically demand heavy-handed policing of the people.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#66

Post by idle_zealot »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

> parties. If you go to a government institution and tell them their boss sux, in theory you shouldn't be punished for that, and they'll keep serving you. But the same does not extend to a private bakery. Or a bar. Or any private property. Tell them their boss sux, and you might not get service

Except, of course, it's not that simple. There are a host of behaviors and traits that private businesses are not allowed to consider when choosing whether or not to provide you products or services. These carve-outs to free association exist because at any given time a large enough portion of the population exists of bigots who choose their associations based on characteristics that the rest of society has decided are not acceptable grounds for refusing service. So we compel service if we think not providing it is sufficiently shitty and harmful. Something similar happens when a private institution, or class of institution, is so critical to life or participation in society that exclusion serves as a form of semi-banishment. Such institutions are put under even stricter standards for association.

The idea that social credit or similar are totally fine and peachy so long as it's "only" private institutions using it is a fantasy entertained by rugged individualists who naively narrow their analysis of power dynamics to "big government bad" and discount their dependency on extremely powerful private organizations.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#67

Post by socalgal2 »

nemomarx wrote: post #19
socalgal2 wrote: post #5

Great article and good point. I never articulated this as good as the article but, I've always assumed that when I use Uber/Lyft and rate a driver, if I give too many drivers a low rating I'll be banned from the app. I'm not saying I will actually be banned, I have no idea. Rather, I'm saying I fear I will be banned. I mean why not? Any customer that effectively makes the company look bad can be banned by the company…

All of this sounds like normal driving behavior to me? I see it every time I commute to work. I think if you want a driver who doesn't do this you'd need a real commercially registered driver with specific training.

why even have traffic laws then?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#68

Post by Majestic121 »

otterley wrote: post #47
wvenable wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, you are exactly the same person you were in your 20s and didn't improve one bit. Did you make mistakes? Too bad. That's you forever. Learning from mistakes is impossible.

[flagged]

They are surely not the only one to have make mistakes in their life.

It's literally a lesson from the Bible: "Let him who is without sin among you, cast the first stone at her."

I'm telling on myself too, yeah.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#69

Post by DrillShopper »

bobsmooth wrote: post #51
seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Exactly. Unless all these companies are sharing trustworthiness data I can make a new account and start fresh. The centralization of "worthiness" is what concerns me.

How do I make new Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax account to reset my credit score?
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