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The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

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Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#61

Post by transcriptase »

8note wrote: post #24
milesrout wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> so they could use it as an eternal campaign issue clarification - its the republicans that used it as a campaign issue. the dems just assumed it was settled law

“Assumed it was settled law”, despite RBG herself at the time saying what amounted to “this is a flimsy interpretation that will likely be overturned, but we’re going to make it anyway and the government should codify it into law rather than relying on us legislating from the bench”.

Spoiler: No democratic president/congress ever bothered to, and it was rightfully (in a legal, not moral sense) overturned just as she predicted.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#62

Post by ipython »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #45
nitwit005 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You skipped the bit at the front: > Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/21 Which nation is invading…

And who declared war? Because of course that is reserved to Congress.

Don’t worry congress up and abdicated their responsibility to provide oversight on this “war”.

https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/hres211/BILLS-119hres211r... - page 4

In other words, they are so afraid to publicly vote on whether this “war” should continue that they have to play stupid games with the legislative calendar.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#63

Post by rayiner »

tdeck wrote: post #22
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the U.S. killed and imprisoned people at the rate of El Salvador, without due process and essentially at the word of mouth of random people in the community, you’d be running to the hills. Crazy that this far into Trumps disaster and people still want right wing fascist dictatorship. You might get what you want, god help us all.

Police in El Salvador start each day with a quota of people to round up and imprison without trial. If they don't meet the quota, they don't get to go home to their families. https://apnews.com/article/nayib-bukele-san-salvador-el-arre... https://www.hrw.org/report/2022/12/07/we-can-arrest-anyone-w... Frankly it's shocking every time I see people praise Bukele on Hacker News.

[flagged]

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#64

Post by User23 »

labster wrote: post #10
netsharc wrote: post #4

Heh, even the extrajudicial imprisonment camps can be outsourced now. Why look bad having your military run Guantanamo when you can do the Uber model it for a cheap price. Heh, or is a pun on AirBnB the more apt name for it.. "Concrete Floor & Indefinite Detention"?

Suffering as a Service

[flagged]

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#65

Post by rkagerer »

labster wrote: post #10
netsharc wrote: post #4

Heh, even the extrajudicial imprisonment camps can be outsourced now. Why look bad having your military run Guantanamo when you can do the Uber model it for a cheap price. Heh, or is a pun on AirBnB the more apt name for it.. "Concrete Floor & Indefinite Detention"?

Suffering as a Service

Not to minimize what's going on down there, but that also sounds like an apt backronym for other SaaS products I've tried.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#66

Post by [deleted] »

hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

[deleted]

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#67

Post by cookiengineer »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #3
Avshalom wrote: post #2

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=We+suggest+the+Judge+contac...

A quotation from White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, if reports are to be believed; but you should really link to a specific source, e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy73gqq64do . (LMGTFY is the most annoying form of link rot.)

I am not sure if you have seen that there's a flagging war going on on HN lately. The commenter probably didn't link on purpose to prevent that.

Just saying that we need a more neutral medium for the HN crowd if that kind of discussions afen't allowed. Turning a blind eye to what's going on is what got us into this mess.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#68

Post by zdragnar »

nitwit005 wrote: post #27
milesrout wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The powers under the Act don't specify a standard of proof required. It just says: >all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his…

You skipped the bit at the front: > Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/21 Which nation is invading…

Tren de aragua is, according to the government, a terror group, and the Venezuelan government alleges they receive state sponsorship from Columbia.

IF those things can be demonstrated as true, then prevent from prior supreme Court rulings cover this scenario pretty well.

If they can't demonstrate that, then the deportations are clearly outside of the scope of the law and judicial interpretation.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#70

Post by User23 »

nitwit005 wrote: post #27
milesrout wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The powers under the Act don't specify a standard of proof required. It just says: >all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his…

You skipped the bit at the front: > Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/21 Which nation is invading…

There are a lot of “ors” and commas in that law, but it’s not hard to parse unless you’re being willfully obtuse.

((Declared war OR (invasion OR predatory incursion)) IS (perpetrated OR attempted OR threatened)) BY (foreign nation OR foreign government).

The law was drafted in the early 18th century when nation was more of an ethnographic term than a political one.

So "a predatory invasion threatened by Venezuelans" would satisfy that definition.

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