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Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

shkspr.mobi

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They’re not perfect but how is it bad behavior to say you’ll issue a takedown notice if your copyright material is republished? That's not what they said. This is how you should have read their reply: > If your discourse represents a circumvention of this technical protection measure, we'll command a take-down as a standard procedure. If you say something we don't like, if we think we can make the argument that the…

What do you suggest as a better solution to a. give people the possibility to buy electronic books, while avoiding that the publishers and authors risk losing their intellectual property b. give libraries the possibility to lend ebooks fairly? This is a genuine question. Are there better solutions than DRMs? Is Apple, Adobe or Amazon dealing with this better?

this question reeks of

> have you stopped beating your wife?

or, more fairly

> how do we force people to pay for content?

Intellectual property, as a property, is such a fundamentally busted idea to the point of absurdity. One of the symptoms of it presents itself in your very question.

The better option comes from the question

> how do we allow people to pay for it.

If you haven't lately, watch someone stream on twitch, people enjoy paying for stuff they like. Go look at any of the artists who release their albums for donations. Same outcome, when people don't feel taken advantage of, or abused they want to contribute fairly.

Will there be people who abuse it, yes, but how's DRM working? Torrents still exist. There's not a single thing I haven't been able to download without permission. DRM doesn't stop motivated people. It only motivates people like me who consider it toxic, to break it.

If I wanted to read a book, and could download it from a library, but I had to promise to delete it when I was done. Or I had to click a button to return it. I would. I would follow those rules because I agree with them. But if I wanted to read a book, that I wasn't willing to pay for, and my library couldn't give it to me in a format that works on my remarkable. Well I know how torrents work.

Are there better solutions than DRM. Yes trusting people. Even trusting those who you know you cant trust.

And then trusting people like me, with more than enough money, who will pay more than I think you could force the average individual to pay, because I want to support people creating art I enjoy. And I want people who can't afford it, people like past me, to enjoy it too.

It's a funny thing that, the only people I'm willing to give money to, already give away their content for free...

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#62
post #54

> We were planning to now focus on new accessibility features on our open-source Thorium Reader, better access to annotations for blind users and an advanced reading mode for dyslexic people. Too bad; disturbances around LCP will force us to focus on a new round of security measures This is so funny to me. "We might have gotten around to making our software accessible, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

Accessibility? Like with plain text? What a crazy world that would be.

I glance and skim the plain text because it is popular, but prefer to go back to the original and read the incomprehensible gobblegook the author intended me to have, and that I paid for.

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the goals that these people pursue are difficult to understand or anticipate. You assume that because these people are employed by some business entity that their goals are "make more money" and such. That's rarely the case, even if we allow for the unenlightened version of "make more money". Instead, assume that many, possibly even most, are more interested in being punitive out of some warped sense of justice.…

That's a pretty impressive way to imagine people's motivations. The likelihood of a non-profit outfit building open source software being driven by a warped sense of justice and the goal of making people miserable rather than, say, trying to make sure they can continue their stated mission and ensure publishers keep agreeing to digital book lending is pretty bold. But sure, why not.

>The likelihood of a non-profit outfit building open source software being driven by a warped sense of justice

Because those people are, after all, inhuman robots with no connection to humanity? In fact, I'd say that with any group of humans, each additional human makes this more likely, simply because this sort of attitude easily overrides the less-aggressive attitudes of those who don't agree with it.

You seem to disagree because it would be uncomfortable if I were correct, and you'd much rather it be true that I'm wrong.

>trying to make sure they can continue their stated mission

What person over the age of about 5 thinks that because an organization starts with a particular mission that, even a few years in, still strongly pursue it?

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#64
post #39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find myself uncomfortably on the side of AI bros like Sam Altman who argue for the expansion of the fair use doctrine Why? Are you training LLMs? I highly doubt they'll fight a pro-consumer fight completely incidental to their objectives (if not detracting: don't need to buy the source textbook if you can ask ChatGPT about its contents as soon as it's released).

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Anything done to strengthen fair use is in my opinion a positive outcome. Happy to see copyright holders go toe-to-toe against a bully their own size. If both OpenAI and entrenched IP interests get bloodied in this fight, it's a win-win.

Agree completely.

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#65
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They’re not perfect but how is it bad behavior to say you’ll issue a takedown notice if your copyright material is republished? That's not what they said. This is how you should have read their reply: > If your discourse represents a circumvention of this technical protection measure, we'll command a take-down as a standard procedure. If you say something we don't like, if we think we can make the argument that the…

What do you suggest as a better solution to a. give people the possibility to buy electronic books, while avoiding that the publishers and authors risk losing their intellectual property b. give libraries the possibility to lend ebooks fairly? This is a genuine question. Are there better solutions than DRMs? Is Apple, Adobe or Amazon dealing with this better?

DRM for lending is one thing. I don't think I've seen a good argument against it.

DRM for sales is another. The world didn't end when Apple forced music publishers to drop DRM, and a number of smaller publishers have seen success selling DRM-free ebooks. I don't see why that couldn't happen with the wider ebook market.

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#66

> KOReader never contacted us: I don't think they know how low the certification fee would be It's between 350USD (per platform) and 1,700USD per year. So the possible range is between 1700USD, and 3k USD... Yeah, that's totally reasonable for a FOSS project where the lower yearly cost is 110% of the amount they make in donations every year.

Even if it's free I doubt they would have wanted it. Supporting DRM is the opposite of what KOreader is for.

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#67
Definitely a cool post and I certainly think people should be able to de-DRM things they own for their own use, but I do have some sympathy for the defense of LCP.

Digital books are a good thing. I can hear about a book I'd like to read and start reading it minutes later. It also drastically lowers the barriers to publication for new or controversial authors. I want authors and publishers to be able to make money, so I think it's fair that they take some precautions to ensure that the book is not redistributed for free.

I would love if someone could come up with a truly friendly DRM for ebooks that would be supported by all major reading hardware/software and accepted by the publishers. Then we'd have a functioning ecosystem not dominated by one or two mega players. Curious what people here think might work?

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#68
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always do OCR on the paper book, so if the easiest way to circumvent some ebook DRM were OCR, the vendor would probably consider that a resounding success.

Which is dumb because that still takes very little time and effort. You can pirate any paper book in like 10 minutes with a decent sheet fed scanner if you don't care about keeping it bound. What a hurdle. But hey, Grandma Martha can't read her Kindle version on the new Kobo her grandson got her without buying a new copy. Fantastic.

> But hey, Grandma Martha can't read her Kindle version on the new Kobo her grandson got her without buying a new copy. Fantastic.

To the business-people making the kind of decisions we hate, that sounds to them like:

"So you're telling me grandma Martha is not rich, has no big team of lawyers, and they're taking down the agency advocating for consumers rights so no one can stop us if we fck her over and 200 million people more? Seems like it's her problem."*

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#69
post #67

Definitely a cool post and I certainly think people should be able to de-DRM things they own for their own use, but I do have some sympathy for the defense of LCP. Digital books are a good thing. I can hear about a book I'd like to read and start reading it minutes later. It also drastically lowers the barriers to publication for new or controversial authors. I want authors and publishers to be able to make money, so…

The vast majority of authors hardly make any money, and DRM will not change that.

And given books are so easy to duplicate from the form that needs to be available to users to read, there is no world where DRM will ever stop duplication of books.

Re: Extracting content from an LCP “protected” ePub

#70
post #67

Definitely a cool post and I certainly think people should be able to de-DRM things they own for their own use, but I do have some sympathy for the defense of LCP. Digital books are a good thing. I can hear about a book I'd like to read and start reading it minutes later. It also drastically lowers the barriers to publication for new or controversial authors. I want authors and publishers to be able to make money, so…

No DRM would really work. There's always the analog hole, and OCR is more effective than ever.

I want to read the books I buy on the device I paid for, regardless of what device it is or software it's running, and without having to ask an arbitrary middleman for permission. Nothing less is acceptable for me.

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