Seems like it can be at least mostly automated.
seems like a bad idea
Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
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Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#62If they are understaff (namely giga honest, super solid competent people for air traffic ground control), you have to reduce air traffic as it is way too dangerous. For this kind of staff, it is not just a matter of "training", it is way more demanding.
> as it is way too dangerous.
What led you to that belief? Air travel is one of the safest ways to get from here to there, and it’s widely enough used that clearly not very many people think it is too dangerous to use.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or you modernize the system (not just tech but potentially the procedures). Kind of stupid to increase air traffic and traffic density over decades and just expect the old systems to scale.
I'm not sure this is something that is solved by tech. It sounds like they simply don't have enough staff, whether that a budget problem or hiring problem IDK. The article mentions they have a 50% reduction in new hires which either says it's hard to be competent, the job is too demanding, or both. They had 1 tower with 1 operator and no redundancy at a fairly busy airport, which is definitely concerning.
Your comment assumes the current system can be scaled indefinitely. But you also acknowledge that we can't currently fill the staffing. I also explicitly called out that the modernization might not be tech changes but procedure changes (realistically it would likely be procedure changes made possible through tech).
Doing something to distribute information differently could result in redundancy such that if the commercial craft have a 1-3 mile ADS-B view around them, they can check that ATC isn't giving them bad instructions and that others are following directions.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#64[deleted]
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
The hangup is that the current administration is asking them to resign en masse, not hiring more.
Avoiding politics completely, so the FAA has been systematically understaffed for decades because of this current administration?
The current admin no, but the current party yes. Politics cannot be ignored because this is the result of downstream effects from the Reagan era.
Firing everyone during the 1981 strike fucked up hiring for a decade. Rehiring a bunch of people all at once meant that they all would have the same general retirement timing (20-30 years). The bush era had some fucking around with the FAA as well.
COVID accelerated retirements and now Trump is demanding the fee that remain retire as well. So naturally the end result is a complete lack of staffing and a poor training pipeline for a job few people want to do.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#66If there is one thing I've learned in the past few days, acutely so, is that the vast majority of people do not understand the sheer complexity of what it takes to have an aviation industry.
I think “sense of urgency”, “trouble shooting”, “understanding what is influencing other people’s actions” and even the ability to run a sort of “run a mental simulation and anticipate second order effects” are uncommon skills.
I worked with a good technical support team that worked on some high end equipment, and regardless of education the ability to troubleshoot could be found regardless and … in spite of education.
In my current coding role I find myself saying “I don’t care if he used an html tag wrong, he anticipated a problem with several tickets and avoided them.” Just the will / ability to do that is so valuable.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does it have to take decades? That sounds insane
Large infrastructure projects always take decades. Look at the railroad development in EU for example. You have to invent a lot of tech (signaling, communication between trains, interoperability with old systems), build a lot of infrastructure, train a lot of people and roll it out at scale with the goal of zero accidents. It is just impossible to do quickly.
Yeah, but some of the next generation upgrades have already been successfully tested at some facilities and it's just a problem of updating the rest. Sure it will take years, but it shouldn't take a decade after successful testing in the field.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Modernize the system how? Like do you have explicit steps on how to modernize it and what needs to be done?
They're working on multiple technical upgrades already, and some airports have been upgraded. I think better information distribution is one thing. Large craft could have ADS-B (or ATC's view) tracking of a 1-3 mile bubble displayed to them. This would add a check to being blindly told what to do and blindly trusting that others are doing what they're told. You could change certain procedures such as the military hav…
> Large craft could have ADS-B tracking of a 1-3 mile bubble displayed to them. This would add a check to being blindly told what to do and blindly trusting that others are doing what they're told.
Already exists, it's called TCAS
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or you modernize the system (not just tech but potentially the procedures). Kind of stupid to increase air traffic and traffic density over decades and just expect the old systems to scale.
Modernizing a system while it is in use is high risk. Absurdly high risk. Might still be needed, but is not a cheap or quick thing.
The implication is some sort of greenfield change-everything-at-once idea?
There is no choice but to do the alternative: modify and modernise all our critical systems piecemeal over decades while they are running, covered by the business cliche "We are building the plane, while flying it."
We all naively desire (especially politicians) the software concept of the big rewrite, the version 2, project phoenix, Second-System Syndrome. With development experience we learn both the psychological pull of the concept and we learn why it is so hard to do successfully. It always seems so simple how to fix societal systems we have no experience with.
Successful systems slowly improve, slowly introduce and prove new ideas, slowly accrete changes: we accept the costs of vestigial path-dependent aspects and technical debt.
One of the incredible learning experiences of developing software systems is that it is a huge melting pot of different techniques that are iterated quickly (fast parallel evolution and proving) and the knowledge diffuses between people and teams and organisations. The waterfall model is rarely used! I believe we are now seeing those skills and techniques be applied to other system domains - especially high growth businesses.
Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows
#70It seems like there are shortages in every field according to the media. Shortage in tech workers, shortage in doctors and nurses, shortage of air traffic controllers. Shortages all around.
Here's how to instantly cure shortages of ATCs: Each airline is responsible for staffing N ATCs per scheduled flight at a given airport, calculated on a yearly basis.